Charlie quoting me:
“This was not intended as a lesson in American history.”
Charlie: An argument was made from history. I was simply debunking it.
Charlie quoting me: “when I have both Joseph and CharlieHall disagreeing with me.”
Charlie: The question was a yes or no question. You have to agree with Joseph or you have to agree with me. Or withdraw from the debate.
Charlie quoting me: ” I also note that many of the founders held more liberal views”
Charlie: To be honest I think most of the Founders did not see a major problem with slavery. The number who became abolitionists was clearly a minority. It was a major blind spot that would lead to a horrible Civil War two generations later.
Response: First of all, there is a difference between the question in this thread (should women be able to vote) and all of the other stuff discussed. On the issue in this thread, I am quite sure we agree, and frankly, I am quite sure that 80% or more (I would hope more) of the people posting agree that women should be allowed to vote in the US. Indeed, I really do believe Joseph was just having fun with the topic/question, which is silly.
Second, you changed your position on the founders in this thread. My position has not changed on them.
Like most humans before the last 20 years when all of a sudden everyone polarized with a clarity of vision unseen in the past (religion too…almost on every issue), they were probably complicated and conflicted people. They were also a group and held conflicting opinions.
Again, the point of my comment was the founders were not perfect, so even if they did not agree with women’s suffrage (which is not a sure thing, while it did not get done until later, its not clear that at least some did not agree with the idea), it does not matter because they could be wrong.