DY and Neville:
The lashon is not at all to the effect of “domeh liMi sheAvad A”Z”. The lashon they used is that this is literally A”Z. And Kefirah.
DY:
I guess that’s why an LOR is an LOR and you are…?
It is not that simple to condemn a person just because of a particular portion of his theology. Please see the rest of this post as well.
zogt_besser:
There is a different group who are considered a sect of Judaism (I won’t mention who they are so as not to extend this thread by another five pages, but I mean people who are considered by most “Frum” Jews to be “bichlal amisecha”, not Jews for J, CH”V) whose standing, etc. might be illustrative here.
I have heard regarding this group that their sect’s extremely problematic beliefs regarding Hashem, while wrong and heretical, do not turn these individuals into heretics. Rather, we treat them as, essentially, idiots and NOT heretics.
Perhaps the same applies here. Just because MO as a theology fools itself into adopting the idol of nationalism and that and other heresies, that doesn’t automatically follow that any of its adherents are therefore idol-worshipers and heretics. Perhaps there are other reasons that its adherents are still bichlal amisecha, that you can trust their kashrus, etc. I am not dealing with any of that.
Regardless, the point, again, is simply that the gedolim have clearly stated that MO theology is idolatrous and heretical. That’s all; nobody is looking to bash anyone.