Reply To: Reporting Abusers

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Chortkov
Participant

Daas Yochid:

Of course, I am referring to locking up the abuser. He is deserving, and he brought about the situation that locking him up is a deterrent through his own actions.

I similarly wouldn’t support locking up an accused abuser who is actually an innocent person, though it might be a deterrent.

The motive isn’t revenge; the motive is prevention, but we still need to differentiate between the innocent and the guilty.

And I think that this is the bottom line of what the OP is driving at: is punishment/revenge sufficient reason to report/ lock someone up, or does there need to be a benefit? If there does need to be a benefit, which type of benefit might be excluded? These are theoretical questions, and they may indeed be of no practical import.

I’m not sure. Would you say the same thing if this guy was punkt guilty of a different sin? You agree there is no intrinsic reason to lock up an abuser who will not be doing so again. The only reason to do so is to act as a deterrent to others. In other words, wrong as he may be, what he did doesn’t warrant the punishment you want to give him. So what are you giving it to him for? To accomplish something else. Why does being ‘guilty’ justify that?

Yekke2, so we agree that rodef isn’t relevant. We’re not discussing killing him (as much as some people would like to), we’re discussing reporting. I’m not sure why you brought it up.

The point was that the Heter is two pronged: (a) You can violate any Bein Odom Lechaveiro means of ???? ?????? ???? ??????, and (b) Hilchos Mesira itself can allow you to report such a person. There could be halachic authorities who will not allow Mesirah on somebody affecting only individuals (for example an abusive father/husband who isn’t a public villain), yet because of Roidef will allow you to report it. They both apply in different situations.

But you’re right, in the OPs case, Mesirah is no problem even without coming on to Roidef.