(Moderators: I apologize for all the lengthy posts in this thread but I think it would be impractical – if not impossible – to have this discussion via short posts.)
Joseph:
I first want to reiterate that we are still straying far off topic with this whole discussion about R’ Kook. That said:
The dissection is precisely to prove my point that a 100 year old story is not so reliable, especially when various details don’t check out. And they are not all small details. If my dates are correct then R’ Yerucham Gorelik wouldn’t be a reliable source for the story. And the Chofetz Chaim’s objection to newspaper was in regards to reading them, not in regards to buying them (though he may have also objected to that in some other source). He writes that it is a tremendous waste of time, and newspapers contain leitzanus, lashon hara, rechilus, machlokes, etc. So he probably wouldn’t want someone else to read it to him either. Obviously the story changed somewhat in the last 100 years, so we don’t really know what to take out from the story. And again, it is contradicted by the letter. (And both stories, as you told them, are responses to things that R’ Kook never said or wrote.)
You ask about the letter. It is not “a photocopy going around online”. It is printed in several seforim. The earliest source that I have seen it in is ????? ????”? p. ???? which was published 29 years ago. So it is clearly not an invention of the internet age. I presume that he mentioned his yichus because he was claiming to represent the Chofetz Chaim’s position.
You are correct that Avi K said “YU grad”; however, merely being a YU grad doesn’t make someone an authority on R’ Gorelik. I therefore assumed that Avi meant an actual talmid. He can correct me if I made an incorrect assumption.
The story about the Chofetz Chaim at the Knessia is also brought in several seforim. In ???? ????”? p. 217, the source of the story is R’ Nissan Zaks.
Can one imagine anything more contradictory to the basic values of our Torah?
Why is this contradictory to basic Torah values? In fact R’ Kook was basing himself on the Rambam who writes:
?????? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ?? ????? ???? ?”? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ??? ????? ?? ?????? ??????? ????? ????? ?? ?? ????? ????? ??????? ????? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ????? ??? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ?? ????? ???? ??? ??????? ?? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ????? ?? ????? ??? ???????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ??????? ?? ?? ????? ??? ?? ???? ???? ??????? ??????? ??????? ????? ??? ???? ????? ?? ??? ???? ?????? ???????? ?????? ?? ??????? ????? ????? ?? ???????? ?? ????? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ?????? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ????
In fact, in ???? ????”? p. 244, it describes how R’ Kook met with ?????”? ???????? ?????”? ???? ????? ?’ ???? ??? ????? about this very inyan:
????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ?? ?? ???? ?????”? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ??? ??????
(The source of the story is R’ Shmuel Aharon Shazuri.)
As R’ Moshe Tzuriel pointed out:
?? ????? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ?? ?? ?? ???? ????”? ????”?
(Obviously, one can argue that R’ Kook was taking the Rambam too far, but l’maaseh, that’s not what the admorim argued in this story.)
Regarding R’ Yosef Yedid, his objection is that no one can surpass Moshe. However, R’ Kook writes “?????? ?????”, by which he is presumably referring to ???? ?????. If that is the case then see what I wrote:
Back to the Chofetz Chaim, we actually have a letter written by the Chofetz Chaim to R’ Kook in 1923 in which he discusses the machlokes in Eretz Yisrael. It is printed in several seforim, and apparently was first printed in ??? ???? ???”? (i.e. the very year that it was written):
???”? ??? ?’ ??? ???”? ??”?
?? ???? ????? ????? ?”? ???’ ???’ ???”? ??”? ????? ???? ???? ??? ?”?
???”? ???”?
???? ??”? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ???? ?’ ????? ???????? ??? ??”? ?????????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???”? ???? ???? ????? ??? ???? ?? ?? ??? ???? ????? ????? ????? ?? ???? ????? ??????? ?????? ??”? ????? ??”? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ????? ???? ??? ?? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ?? ???? ??”? ??? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ?? ?”? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ?? ???? ????? ?? ????? ???”? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ??”? ???? ??? ?????? ??”?. ?????? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ??? ???”? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ??”? ????? ???? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???”? ????? ?”? ???”? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ????? ??”?. ??”? ???? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ?’ ?????? ????? ???? ?”? ??? ????? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ???”? ????? ?????? ??”? ?? ?”? ???? ???”? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ?? ???? ???? ??? ????? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ???
????? ???????
????? ???? ????
???? ??? ????? ????? ???? ??? ????? ?’ ???? ???? ?”? ??”? ???? ???????????? ?????? ???? ??”? ?? ??????? ????? ?? ????? ???? ???? ????? ??? ???? ??? ???? ????? ??? ??????
??”?
This letter should be rather instructive as to how the Chofetz Chaim viewed R’ Kook.
Regarding the quote from The Rav Thinking Aloud, there are two points to be noted. First of all, some of the Rav’s closest talmidim spoke against the book. R’ Hershel Schachter was interviewed in Mishpacha Magazine December 16, 2009. Here is an excerpt:
I ask Rav Schachter for his impressions of the newly released book The Rav Thinking Aloud, which consists of transcripts of
impromptu personal conversations with Rav Soloveitchik. He tells me that he does not believe that every off-the-cuff and off the record remark is fit to print. People speak differently in the privacy of the home from the way they speak when they address Klal Yisroel, and that distinction needs to be honored.
R’ Aaron Rakeffet, in a recorded lecture, discussed this interview and he said:
You notice the way R’ Hershel handles himself. Alright, he doesn’t maledict the Holzer volume the way R’ Aharon [referring to R’ Aharon Lichtenstein – PAA] did.
Apparently, both R’ Schachter and R’ Lichtenstein are not such fans of the book. Furthermore, about this very meeting with R’ Kook, there is a different perspective, also culled from direct conversation with R’ Soloveitchik, by R’ Moshe Tzvi Neriyah. Part of it was translated in Tradition 39:3. Among other things, he has a copy of what R’ Soloveitchik wrote in the visitors book (translated):
I, too, add my prayers to those of the Jewish people, asking mercy for the well being of Rabbenu ha-Gadol,the prince of Israel and its glory,
Maran Avraham Yitshak ha-Kohen Kook shelita. Israel lifts her eyes to heaven, that He who dwells on high should send a complete healing to the
[July 16, 1935]
Yosef Dov ha-Levi Soloveitchik, Boston, USA
He further quotes R” Soloveitchik as saying:
Ha-Rav left a great impression on me. I have seen
gedolim. I grew up in the presence of gedolim, but his was a unique personality, a completely different type [of gadol]
The second point is that we have to consider how much weight to give in the first place to R’ Soloveitchik’s impression. Remember, this is an impression based on one meeting with someone who was essentially on his deathbed – hardly the best way to get an accurate picture of the person.
And finally, to address your last claim about the kol korei, granted it may have been unheard of before R’ Kasher published it but Weinman spoke to the signatories well after R’ Kasher had published it.