It looks like little has changed on the B110 Williamsburg-to-Borough Park bus line, where self-segregation among the sexes remains as entrenched as ever.
It took less than a minute before a man questioned my presence on the front of the bus on Wednesday.
“Excuse me,” said the gentleman, who appeared to be an ultra-Orthodox Hasidic Jew, as I squeezed in beside him. “Ladies in the back.”
“Is there a rule?” I asked him, as the women sitting in the back half of the B110 bus peered curiously at me, the only non-Jewish person on board.
“Please, ladies in the back,” he said, visibly uncomfortable.
The man switched to sit across from me.
“It’s not a rule; it’s a rule amongst us,” snapped another man.
I identified myself as a reporter and was hoping to engage in a conversation with the men, all but one who appeared Hasidic, wearing traditional black hats, side curls and beards.
But there was no conversation. A woman boarding the bus at the next stop in South Williamsburg saw me and stopped. “The ladies are sitting in the back,” she said, beckoning me.
“Is that a rule?” I asked again.
“Yes,” she responded.
So much for a Rosa Parks moment. It was the back of the bus for me.
“Thank you, we appreciate it,” said the woman smiling as I followed her to the back.
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22 Responses
Cool. The PASSENGERS are enforcing it. Beautiful. The bus company is not.
you forgot to include this “On the bus ride back from Borough Park to Williamsburg, I again sat in the front. This time no one said a word to me, though I got a few peculiar looks. Only one man would sit next to me. Another man offered him his seat moments later, standing up instead”
This woman says she “squeezed” in beside him. To sit down is one thing, to intentionally touch/squeeze is another.
She can legally be charged with sexual harassment. Whoever was her unlucky neighbor on the bus, should seek legal advice. We can stop these idiots once and for all.
yay. stupid libs
Not beautiful at all. The goyim DO NOT have to play by our rules. This is a line that anyone can use. If you want to self-enforce that rule, pay the money for a private charter company.
I hope someone stands up to this meshugas. It’s wildly embarrassing.
I don’t know what the answer to this is…I too appreciate and would adhere to the self segregation of the genders…but I’m uncomfortable with enforcing it on others
I can just imagine our reaction if one got on a public franchised bus in a muslim neighborhood and saw them asking a Yiddishe woman to cover her face…I’m sure it wouldn’t be “…Cool…Beautiful…”
If the principal is that defacto enforcement of private religious standards on a publicly franchised bus is “beautiful” then it works for them as well as it works for us.
#6:
An excellent point. People don’t realize that the sword cuts both ways.
#3:
Don’t go to law school, because that’s neither sexual harassment nor a battery from what was written. Have you never had to squeeze in next to someone in a crowded bus? Thought so.
shlepper (#3):
Good point. I almost missed that. This reporterette provocateur was deliberately attempting to provoke a reaction, much like the previous reporterette who initiated this entire “story”.
I think you are correct 2pence.
How do you feel about imposing “our” standards on secular Yidden? Here? In Israel?
I think the problem is the same in those circumstances, and is the nub of why frumkeit needs to separate itself from government…Hashem does not gain new adherents…and gains many enemies and scoffers… through enforced mitzvah observance.
@YonasonW; you said it perfectly
However when it comes to outwardly frum yidden, no one else exists and it’s ok to act like golus doesnt apply to them.
Could you imagine the uproar if the Christians had a bus line and they made you cross yourself before getting on…the ADL would be in permanent attack mode with the rest of the “cry wolf antisemitism groups”
So in conclusion,
It is great that tznius is something you take very seriously but please not that you can not enforce it on everyone.
Are these buses marked as Jewish somehow? If you know you’re getting on a muslim bus, then you’re asking for trouble. If there is no clear marking as to what kind of bus this is, it looks like a regular city bus, how can we demand that people adhere to our rules?
Hey 2pence –
It’s beautiful, beautiful, beautiful.
What’s your beef?
If you read the article, the men did not make a scene. They asked she refused, the guy changed his seat. They would not talk to her, as they would not talk to any woman. They did nothing wrong at all. The woman asked her politely and said this is how we do things, She smiled at her! There was no harassing. The women did speak to her and explained whay they do what they do. As far as the passengers they acted extremely well. SHE tried to push the issue by sitting where it would ruffle feathers.
In response to #5, this IS a private bus route, the city has given it permits, but all the expenses and profits are private. (AND I am sure they city gets taxes from this) The lawsuit said the bus company could not force the issue. They is nothing that says the passengers could not make the request on the own. (Keyword is request not demand!)
There are too many people who are offended by frum people. If I was a professional I would say it is because they feel guilty, why aren’t we that careful!
5. Your comment isn’t even worth 2 pence! If this machshayfa or any other Martha Shayfala comes onto the bus to sit in the front, they are doing it to start up – nothing more & nothing less. That being the case, they should be TOSSED off the bus!!
The WSJ is a pay site. Perhaps someone or YWN could post the rest of the “story” for us to see??
Is it dineh demalchuse dina or dina layisroel dineh in Galus America ???????????
#3 makes a good point.
Squeezing next to a member of the opposite gender on a bus is obviously not sexual harassment usually, because it is not meant or understood as a sexual gesture.
However, it is equally obvious that if context shows it is meant and understood as a sexual gesture, it would be harassment. (for example, imagine it was a boss who was squeezing next to his secretary who he also had said things to, and made other gestures.)
She did it specifically to antagonize him knowing he understood it in a sexual way. Makes an interesting question.
“There are too many people who are offended by frum people” Yossi? I think there are too many frum people offended by others simply going about their daily lives according to standards that while not ours are not so outrageous. I mean, what would these people who kvetch about seating on a bus do on a subway?!
how come when its the jews that have such a bus policy, they send a reporter on to the bus to try and instigate something? if this would be a muslim bus doing the same or worse not only wouldnt they try to investigate they would be writing articles of what a beautiful thing it is. I think we all know the answer
#13: It may be a privately OWNED route, but it is a PUBLIC accommodation, i.e., anyone can ride it. Therefore it must comply with various sets of laws. What I suggested was to get a PRIVATE charter not open to public ridership. Of course, that would be more expensive and I doubt you’d want to pay for that.
#14: Doesn’t matter if they are doing it to provoke reaction. They are correct; they have the absolute right to sit anywhere on the bus that they want.
#8: The jostling on the bus would make any physical contact incidental and de minimis, and would not support a battery claim unless more severe than was reported. You’re not guilty of a crime or civil offense merely for trying to provoke a reaction. #3’s comment does not provide one iota of truthfulness.
if its a mistake then deal. this woman came to make trouble. dont go have a same gender marriage in a shul in
BP and not expect a reaction. yes its legal and cant legally be shut down but a community can have feelings and have those feelings respected.
She should have refused to go to the back – and if they had tried to force her she should have called the police They have no right to force their chumrot on others – and the fact that in Israel they are called “mehadrin buses” shows that they admit that it only a chumra.
As for it being a “private” line, if it provides a service to the general public it is a place of public acccomodation and they may not even ask people to sit in a certain place on the basis of gender. Israeli buses in fact now have signs saying that someone doing this is liable to criminal prosecution.