Gavra –
I don’t know who Joe is or why you thought that I am he; I most certainly am not.
I noticed that you don’t have a response to my point. Offhand dismissal of a cogent point is a favorite technique of successful debaters, but it does not prove anything.
I don’t know to which Israeli Rosh Yeshiva it is that you refer; nor did you deign it necessary to provide any context to the statement he supposedly made. All I can say is that I never heard any such divisive rhetoric from my own Rebbeim (in well known Yeshivos, none of which are mentioned in your most recent post). On the contrary, many of my friends from Yeshiva are now working as lawyers, doctors, accountants and in many other occupations. Some are selling insurance or mortgages; others are laying tiles and fixing pipes. Some spent several years in Kollel before finding a job; others spent only one or two years in Beis Medrash after High School.
Far from being considered “second class citizens”, all of them are highly respected in their communities (and most live in Lakewood) as B’nei Torah with great integrity and commitment to values. All this with the encouragement and support of their Rebbeim. Some of them happen to be their Rebbeim’s own children, whose fathers pushed them “out of the Beis Medrash” with both hands.
The fact is that there is a lot of ignorant and hateful talk which gets in the way of the truth.
We can have a debate about the issues, but not with inflammatory arguments. That’s not a debate, it’s a fight.