Reply To: Hakaras Hatov for Israeli Soldiers (IDF)

Hakatan- i genuinely believe that actually you think you are 100% right- when you are 100% misinformed as to the totality of the different Gedolim’s positions on this issue. You assume that i havent learnt the sugya when not only did i go through the sugya- but i read the anti sefarim, and the pro, and the in between. I do not disagree that there were oaths -rather that these oaths were not violated for the reasons quoted above in my posts( Permission, reshus, Binding Majority,no dechikas haketz in last geula, no inherent unfrum state rather nuetral democratic state that changes with population, and even when nonreligious run it are deemed tinok shenishba and not meizid).

You said :”For example, it is not emes that the State would be in any way acceptable if it were “religious”.” But This is exactly what the majority of Gedolim (B”D of KLal Yisrael) said was muttar. I know it sounds out of place, but on that B”D, Rav Aharon Kotler and Rav Elchanon were outvoted by majority of other Gedolim on the B”D -which decided that it would not be kefira and A”Z in our understanding of yiddishkeit to have some sort of state before mashiach comes if done it the right way. Plus, Rav Moshe held it wasnt a problem(as per my above discussion with one of the foremost gedolim of our times). Lastly- while it is probably bothering you to think -that you might have to express hakaras hatov even for the medinah itself – the example of mitzrayim who killed us phyiscally and spiritually – is a 100% knockout- because even if you hold that state is treif , A”Z, terrible, a shmad, sitra achra– Mitzrayim had those qualities and yet we are told to have Hakaras hatov for them. The state, however, does not put innocent jews to death, the state has an army that risks its lives to protect Jews, and has for decades provided assistance for Torah learners. But you just quote a statement about the romans which does not resemble the comparison to our issue whereas mitrzayim does.

LOOK AT THE RITVA EIRUVIN DAF 13 — that eilu vi’eilu has a mesorah based on the medresh that there are 49 ways to permit and 49 ways to prohibit Torah matters- but the rov decides the halacha – the B”D of Klal Yisrael( acc to Brisker Rav) paskened the state alone was not a problem. I am sure they were not happy with non religious running the place in the beginning but that is not related to the oaths as per above. And as per above – the state is neither frum nor non-frum – but rather democratic and neutral.

HACHSOEM SHEL HAKADOSH BARUCH HU = EMES (meseches shabbos)