Leading dati leumi posek Rabbi Chaim Druckman Shlita sent a letter to Rishon L’Tzion Rabbi Yitzchak Yosef Shlita after the latter spoke out harshly against dati leumi rabbonim who permit ascending to Har Habayis.
Rav Druckman, who is viewed as an elder among the Zionist rabbonim in Israel, is of the opinion one may visit Har Habayis providing one prepares oneself in line with halacha.
The rav states “The Rishon L’Tzion Rabbi Yitzchak Yosef Shlita appears to have forgotten that Rabbi Shlomo Goren ZT”L permitted ascending to Har Habayis, as does Rabbi Dov Lior Shlita, and Rabbi Nachum Eliezer Rabinowitz Shlita. They are certainly included in the top league of rabbonim yet their permit visiting Har Habayis in line with halacha. However there are great rabbonim who prohibit this, but we do not have to become confrontational or to taint one’s name”.
Rav Druckman was referring to Rav Yosef referring to rabbonim who permit ascending to Har Habayis as “third rate and they do not have the right to rule against gedolei yisrael”.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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29 Responses
Rabbi Druckman seems to have forgotten was also matir mamzeirim.
Being that everyone today is tomei meis and only the ashes of the Parah Adumah can purify this, it is interesting to know what preparations this rabbi is referring to.
Furthermore, Rav Elyashiv, zecher hatzadik livracha, said that in addition to the Halachic prohibition, we have to be careful not to cause Jewish blood to be shed by provocation for a place where anyway we are not allowed to go, and look at the deaths and suffering of the past two weeks. And the danger and fear.
Food for thought: maybe H-shem put the Arabs there davka to keep us away and protect us from koreis ?
if one has gedolim that say yes and gedolim that say no (of equal stature) why do you have to do it, its better to be “sheiv v’al taaseh”
R Orlofsky said it best
“when godzilla and king kong are fighting, you dont get involved”
That he has to stoop to using Mr. Goren as his source demonstrates his lack of standing. This rabbi needs to realize he isn’t on the same level – or even within three levels – of the gedolim he is challenging.
I think Rabbi Druckman has forgotten how “Rabbi” Goren also went against all gedolei yisroel when he was matir a convert who did not accept torah and mitzvos and , of course, his unforgettable psak allowing 2 mamzerim to marry into klal Yisroel.
Rabbi Goren admitted that many of his halachic decisions were more backed by emotion than halacha (listen to any of R’Zev Leff’s halacha shiurim on the topic of yom ha’atzma’ut).
Most frum people hold of the Psak of Rav Eliyashiv who said we should not go on Har Habayis.
I just wonder how did it happen that exactly all the zionist Rabbonim saw nothing hlachically wrong, and all the Robbonim who aren’t zionist saw it as very wrong. Think about it…
Same with Shmitah etc.
With all due respect, none of the Rabbonim mentioned here compare at all to the Gedolei HaTorah with whom they disagree. And at issue is an Issur D’Oraissa of severe consequence, in addition to the issue of provoking violence (i.e., giving them another excuse for terrorism) and endangering Jewish lives.
It is also worth remembering that when Moshe Dayan returned the management of the Temple Mount to the Arabs after the miraculous conquest of the ’67 War, the Gedolei Yisroel of that time approved of such for this very reason – to prevent Jews from going where it is forbidden to go.
I wonder what it would look like up there if the government had opened it to the public in ’67. It would probably be just as bad as the kosel often is during the summer. Besides the fact that tourists would walk wherever they felt like.
True, the Arabs allow soccer games and all kinds of non-holy things on har habayis. But on the whole (no, I’m not giving those murderers a medal for their ‘kindness’), I’d say they are preserving its integrity better than the Israeli government would have.
Three major issues that the bnei torah are in dispute with the dali community are Har Habayis, geirus, and shmittah. They all have to do with the kiddusha of erets yisroel, isnt it ironic that those who claim to advocate for the kiddusha of erets yisroel advocate selling the land to goyim as a way of circumventing the inyon of kiddush.
Those that pervert the words of our sages(for political capital) are not adding kiddusha, but are actually being michalel.
Lovely, more sinas Yisrael and bizui talmidei chachamim from those who scream the loudest that they are the only true Torah Jews.
The issue of going up to Har HaBayis is not a simple one. It is a halachic issue that requires much more than the usual (and false) reflex to shout that my machmir Chareidi rabbi is better than your maikel non-Chareidi rabbi. While I personally ave never gone up to Har HaBayis and don’t feel the urgency to do so prior to the rebuilding of the Beis HaMikdash, I understand that those who do so have on whom to rely.
One ironic aspect is that those who claim that HaRav Goren zt’l based his psak on emotions (which is of course utter nonsense to anyone who actually bothered to read any of his psakim and sefarim) have no problem with the “emotional” claim that going up to Har HaBayis only serves to anger the Arabs. Get this straight – the Arabs want it all, Har HaBayis, Yerushalayim, Bnei Brak, etc., etc. They always find a new excuse to kill Jews, and they don’t distinguish between those in tank tops or tichels.
What is really at play here is a weak prime minister whose only dream is to get by while the status quo goes on. Unfortunately, evil loves to fill the space left a leadership vacuum. It is time to put Netanyahu out to pasture.
Excuse me, but there are fundamental flaws in this discussion: Har HaBeit belongs to us and not the Arabs or anybody else. If we can or can’t go up on Har HaBeit has nothing to do with that. So before we can start the discussion about the fulfillment of the psakim of our Gedolei HaTorah, Har HaBeit has to be cleared of our ENEMIES. So be it that there will be no one there, but it can’t be that TERRORISTS have free access to Har HaBeit and do there as thy wish.
MDshweks you got it right. I grew up MO and spent a year in Rav Druckmans yeshiva. He is constantly awake and involved with many inyonim. Very impressive.
Yet every sicha was emotionally charged with yearning and support of medinas Yisroel. Once I started attending regular Torah yeshivos, I realized the purity of the stress of trying to do Ratzon Hashem. As opposed to doing our ratzon. No political agendas. The Torah of the true Gedolei Yisroel is seen through a lenses of clarity, whilst the great rabbis of the ziony world look at Torah through colored lenses. Shlomo Goren was around in 67 why didn’t he convince the state to allow access to Hear HaBais ? Bottom line is Hashem wants us to know that even though we think we own the land via Medina’s Yisroel,
MDshweks you got it right. I grew up MO and spent a year in Rav Druckmans yeshiva. He is constantly awake and involved with many inyonim. Very impressive.
Yet every sicha was emotionally charged with yearning and support of medinas Yisroel. Once I started attending regular Torah yeshivos, I realized the purity of the stress of trying to do Ratzon Hashem. As opposed to doing our ratzon. No political agendas. The Torah of the true Gedolei Yisroel is seen through a lenses of clarity, whilst the great rabbis of the ziony world look at Torah through colored lenses. Shlomo Goren was around in 67 why didn’t he convince the state to allow access to Hear HaBais ? Bottom line is Hashem wants us to know that even though we think we own the land via medinas Yisroel, He wants us to know we are not yet worthy of Geula. No what ifs. Once we do real teshuva then Hashem will bring about the real Geula.
Let us not forget that the fact that all this rukus is centered around makom haMikdosh, should arouse a yearning in us for Hashem’s glory to be restored to His rightful place.
Druckman has a nice mustache. I wonder how keeps it in great shape.
MDshweks – I am aware of several Chareidi Rabbonim who are Matir going on the Har HaBayis so long as one prepares properly, though they don’t necessarily publicize their positions widely. One is one of the main authors of Artscroll’s perush on Talmud Yerushalmi, and the Rav of the largest Anglo-Chareidi Shul in Ramat Beit Shemesh.
an Israeli Yid
“was also matir mamzeirim”
Any rabbi who doesn’t pull out all stops in his efforts to matir a mamzir isn’t a rabbi.
“it is interesting to know what preparations this rabbi is referring to”
Basically, going to the mikveh the day before you ascend and not contracting any minor tumah before you ascend. You still can’t go into the area where the azarah was, but most of the Har HaBayit is permissible.
This is an uncontested halachah from our sources and the question has to be raised as to why the rabbis (mostly charedi) who forbid ascending claim that it is an issur karet to ascend at all. It isn’t. One can argue that maybe we don’t know where the azarah was and can’t use logic to determine it because we have lost the mesorah, but that is not what is being argued.
One could also argue on public policy grounds that one should not ascend without bringing in a halachic argument at all. But don’t distort the halachah to make a point. You will convince no learned Jew.
And don’t defame poskim such as Rabbis Druckman and Tendler who permit ascending by calling them names. You only defame yourself in the process.
From c. hall “Any rabbi who doesn’t pull out all stops in his efforts to matir a mamzir isn’t a rabbi.” that means all our great sages of the last dor who lambasted him for his psak are not rabbis??? you are out of control. go vote for obama again
When you start needing guys like Goren and Tendler to back up your position it demonstrates that you’re not only on shaky ground but that you’re in quick sand.
1) This is why you don’t pasken from a mishna. It is a machlokes rishonim whether there is an issur for a t’mei mes to go on har habayis.
2) If the Al Aqsa area was only added by Herod and has no kedusha at all why would anyone want to go there more than the kosel whose shechina has never left?
3) There does not seem to be any more chashivus in davening in a place that has more kedusha. The proof is that every day the kohanim left the azarah to dven in the lishkas hagazis – because this is where Torah was disseminated from. Better to find a yeshiva to daven in.
#8
Actually, it was the standing policy of the chief Rabbinate of Israel/Mandate to forbid it since the days of Rav Kook ZTL.
Rav Nebenzal also prohibited going on Har Habayis
Sir Moses Montefiore went with his Rov onto Har Habayis carried in an enclosed coach. He was immediately put into Cherem by the rabbonei Yerushalayim. He ran to Re Shmuel Salanter , saying his rov said it was OK to go in this way, and he explained his Psak. He said had he known the Rabbonim of Yerushalayim prohibited it neither he nor his rov would have gone! His heartfelt plea was heard and the cherem lifted.
When r. Shlomo Goren visited L.A., R’ Moshe Feinstein proclaimed that no rabbinic kavod should be shown him.
(R’ Pinchas Gruman phoned R’ Moshe himself to confirm)
#2,
SO it’s okay for those who wrap themselves in high falutin’ prestigious titles to be given equal weight?
Or it’s an anarchic free-for-all up to any religious college kid who pontificates?
Sorry that was for #3 (and the preordained comments of #20)
If someone is willing to permit going on Har habayit when there is a chance that the ramifications can be grave and many gedolei hador are screaming against it they can’t be a Yarei shomayim. A Yarei shomayim doesn’t play with fire like that
There are areas which are clearly permitted and there are areas which are clearly prohibited. Those stating that it’s 100% assur to ascend the Har Habayis are merely stating a political statement, or they are confusing the Har Habayis with the Temple Mount, which is not the same thing. You can google a Tradition article which goes through both sides and shows what is what.
(I am not sure why a similar post of mine was censored, I guess calling people names is allowed on YWN but clarifying information is not?)