Dear YWN,
In the past couple of years, this time around was usually my time to breathe a sigh of relief. All the kids were packed and shipped off to sleep away camp and I was having some leisure time in my bungalow. My kids were in the hands of safe and responsible staff members who insured their summer would be a meaningful experience, preparing them for the school year ahead. There was never a worry as to the exposure my children might have to bad influences, being that i had placed them in good hands.
This summer, things have had to change. Since my husband lost his job, we have joined the numerous families who are struggling to make ends meet. We are staying in the city this summer, and together with some of my friends are taking turns running a “mommy style” day camp. Instead of carpool, we rotate watching and entertaining the little ones. Our teenage girls decided to spend the summer being able to make some money and took mother helpers jobs in two different colonies.
I’m writing this letter, since I haven’t slept all week, having sent my daughter off to the country. Since sending her off I have heard about the potential dangers taking place in the country for teenagers. I feel it is my obligation as a mother and as a Jew to share this with the YWN readers.
Apparently, there are things which take place on a nightly basis in the summer, alluring good frum teenage girls and boys, from the finest homes. There are house parties which run all night, where boys and girls come to meet each other, without their parents knowing. These parties are extremely easy to organize with just a simple mass text message which gets forwarded within a ten minute time span. As soon as an empty house, bungalow or location is designated, the teenagers come swarming from all over. I cant even imagine what goes on throughout the course of the night! All of this with good, frum boys and girls that are away for the summer, looking for a change of scenery from their day job.
I’m horrified to what our world has come to, I’m petrified about the exposure our innocent boys and girls can succumb to in just one summer, and I’m at a loss of words as to what we can do? Do we stop sending our children to the country as mothers helpers? As day camp counselors? Do we shield them from outside influences?
However that’s just one night out of a whole week! What do we do about the rest of the week? How do we as a community spread the awareness to others and really allow for things to change. What forums, events, or safety guards can we offer the girls and boys sent off to fend for themselves this summer?
The scary part of this letter is that if I would have been reading it last summer, I would have brushed it off as “oy…so sad…but its not my daughters, baruch hashem. My girls are safe in camp. My girls are safe at home..etc” the painful part is that this summer it is my daughters who are at risk. My daughters who are at risk of the dangers described above, and possible dozens more that i may not even be aware of. The reality is, these are all our girls. We are a nation of achdus – each of those daughters, has to be viewed as if it was our own daughter out there in the country hills.
Please spread this awareness to your reader, and hopefully incite some good response and suggestions as to what can be done.
Sincerely,
A Loving Mother….Of Many Daughters.
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The views expressed in this column reflect the opinions of the individual writers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Yeshiva World News LLC. These individual opinions are also in no way meant as a P’sak Halacha or Hashkafa. As with all matters, be sure to consult with a Rov with all questions.
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76 Responses
If you are so scared of how your children will behave then you have not raised them very well. The whole idea of raising children properly is not so that they will behave properly when they are in a controlled environment, what skill is there in that? The idea is to train them to internalize what they have been taught so that they will ALWAYS behave properly. If camp and home have been your way of preparing your children for adulthood, by keeping them in a bubble, isolated from the REAL world, then you have failed them miserably.
#1
“The idea is to train them to internalize what they have been taught so that they will ALWAYS behave properly”
Nonsense!
So it’s better not to be scared? Oh good to know. THe next time your son/daughter crosses a four lane intersection, don’t worry! (S/he KNOWS how to cross!) Would you let your son drive a tractor trailer? Sure! he KNOWS how to drive!
Send your son/daughter to a movie, they KNOW not to look!
Children are – guess what? CHILDREN! They NEED us to protect them.
BTW, even according to you scr@&%d thinking, there is no reason for PUTTING them in harms way.
Most of our children from Torah-frum good homes would not do bad things. If they do,then something is very wrong with their upbringing. Why should they have expensive cell-phones? Why send a child away to a family if you don’t check them and their colony out? And in camp,there are lots of bad influences,too ,especially in boys’ camps. You have no control over them and you’d be surprised what some fellow bunk-mates will do for ‘fun’ If you are afraid,keep them home and be with them.
to yeshiva11230
although I certainly agree that it is the parents responsibilty to raise children that can function in a proper way regardless where they may find themselves.Clearly you must agree that along the way children especially teenagers will be tempted and make mistakes. And in addition to the responsibilities of parents mentioned by you they also have the job of making sure that those mistakes dont happen or are minimized as much as possible. If you think that kids from good homes that are raised properly dont get into trouble and require proper supervision it is you that is living in a bubble and need to get out into the real world.
It’s wonderful that you were so naive not to be worried when your kids were in camp. Camp has many ruchnius dangers as well.
to 1.
in one word it’s said; chonoch l’nahr al pe darco,gam ki yazkin “lo yusur”
but being so abdrubpt about it i assume that you don’t have any children to raise in 2009.which requires mass amount of tefilah, hishtadlus & syata deshmayay!!!!
I remember reading about this problem last year….sadly it is not entirely new. There should be spiritual shomrim like in the olden days for these young adults, for us adults who are now mature enough to know the severe consequences of such actions, we can remember what our gedolim say, that ‘In this day and age, where immorality is rife, those who hold firm and refrain from sinning, receive a far greater reward than those of previous generations who never had such tests.
Dear Mother,
You JUST realized this????? This is nothing new! I was in the mountains for 5 years in the late 80s and this was going on then too. Granted cell phones and text messages werent used but word got around. BH I didnt have the yetzer hora to “hang out” so to speak so my camp was a bit more relaxed about me going off grounds with a co-worker since they knew I wasnt going to do anything stupid.
I should also ask you why you are putting all your emphasis on the “country” as if the city isnt guilty of the same problem?? In fact in the city its a 12 month problem as opposed to more like a 2 month problem.
You just came to this epiphany despite being in the mountains for many years??!! You never drove thru Woodbourne or some of the other “spots” or did you drive thru it with your eyes closed as they werent “your” kids??
If you raised your daughters with the correct hashgofas and they have A LOT of s’yata dishmaya, they will IYH come thru the summer unharmed. On the other hand, you could have done everything right but they could fail a nisayon.
Even if they CHV fail the nisyaon, they can still do t’shuva as can all the other boys ‘n girls. It may take time and the yetzer hora may have them hit “rock bottom” (or someplace close) first, but they can see the error of their ways.
Instead of becoming frantic and oys mentch about it, why not sit down and say a kapitil thilim that they should have the siyata dishmaya pass the nisyonos that come their way.
Hatzlocha!
“Do we stop sending our children to the country as mothers helpers? As day camp counselors?”
Uh,YES! While you’re at a loss for words as to “what can be done”, I’m at a loss for words to understand how you can send your daughters and then bemoan the dangers.
First send, then moan how terrible?
#1, you are really naïve. I guess when the gemora says “ain opitrupus li’aryos” it wouldn’t apply to your kids becouse you know them that well. Unfortunatly I was around the block and when I used to hang out some of the guys were from “brisk” and not for a second did theyr parents know what they were up to whether it be in Israel or the Catskills. B”H iv come full circle and now having a kid of my own I would think real carefully of where and who my kids are being with.
To yeshiva11230,
Judging by the way you write, you are obviously very naive, and either a “street boy/girl” yourself or single having nothing better to do, looking for any attention you can get, even if it means putting down something you know nothing of. You’re probably right. Instead of the home and camp being the place to bring up children, maybe parents should take their children for outings into the “REAL WORLD”, outside the bubble, and show them the nono’s of society being offered on silver platters. Oh, of course, we will raise them to “internalize” ONLY good. That will probably work! The outside temptations and the friends they make should have NO affect on them.
In all honesty, you’re comment does not deserve a response. You’re first to “burst a healthy bubble” and on top of that, you don’t even realize that you’re living in a bubble yourself. You have no idea what it entails to raise children in today’s day in age, to keep them from tasting what’s out there. Being A child coming from the best of homes with an upbringing far better than most, and as well have friends and family that have gone both ways, I can say that as a child, there’s always that inner desire to step out and see what the “Cool fools” are doing and how they are spending their time- “maybe what they’re doing is not so bad and I too can be one of them”…and before ya know it, he has become one of them. First a peek, then touch, then a taste, and before you know it, its all you want…Everyone has a Yetzer Harah, even those with great parents and exceptional upbringings.
“I wish you lots of luck cause you’re gonna need it”!
Interesting point #1
Num 1 you could not be more WRONG !!it says in pirkey avos do not trust your self until you are dead,it also says don’t put your self in a situation of “nisoyon”.basically however good you bring up your children they can lose it all in one summer!davin hard,be loving parents and whatch over your children.
To #1, Your comment is so not fair. Any child, and I stress ANY child, can succumb to bad influences. It doesn’t matter how well a child was raised. Instead of berating the mother, I would suggest she keep in contact with her daughter at all times, and to find a rebbetzin or mentor to keep tabs on her.
Sorry to say, but I pretty much agree with #1.
While it’s true that occasionally a truly happy, innocent kid can get influenced by exposure to “bad” elements, it’s very unusual, and when kids are raised happily in theuir Yiddishkeit, with loving parents who treat them as adults, and actually LISTEN to them and know them, it NEVER happens.
Do you think your little tzadekes got on the text message list by accident, and that she went to the house party by accident?
Please!
I have six daughters, and none of them would give me a moment’s worry that they’d take part in these parties…and I’m not naive. I’m a mechanech and well aware of the adventures of today’s teenagers. Aderaba, that’s I know whereof I speak.
And you know why my kids wouldn’t be interested in these things?
Because they’re happy, with good healthy friends that I let them have fun with…and we make time for family fun, together.
I play games and sports with my sons…and daughters.
And I shmooz with them, and make private time for each of them.
I DON”T got nust if they do poorly on a test, or even if they don’t get into THE school. I/we make the best of things, they know I love them and have patience for their good AND bad, and they don’t need what the street has to offer, they’ve got enough love and attention at home.
And one last thing, they’re aware of the world, they know girls sometimes get involved with guys, and they see how it can mess up their lives and their priorities, and that also helps them know that they have the best life in the world, and they’re not missing anything by being frum Torah Yidden.
Try this method, and I promise you’ll see good results.
yeshiva11230,
I find your commment to be void of any understanding of both our children and of society. Even the greatest of parenting should not put anyone at ease. Dont be so foolish.
y do fools have to comment. Have you heard of rabbi yochanan cohen gadol. it is self righteous fools like yourself that better worry the most
Sending girls to bungalow colonies where they are on their own has been a problem for a VERY long time. I graduated over 25 yrs. ago, but I remember our principal making a fuss about this even then..before cell phones and all the other modern technology. Teenagers need supervision!
-Number 1
You have got to be kidding. Following this trend of logic we should give internet supervision free to teenagers. Really a pathetic argument.
I fail to understand why you call a parent who continously worries for his\her child -a failed parent. Yes #1- it is NORMAL for a parent to worry that their child may sucumb to some of the strong yetzer harahs that exist in the catskills!
You’re at a loss in terms of what to do? You teach your daughters why it’s not okay to attend co-ed parties and before you send them off, you evaluate them to see whether they are mature enough to follow your guidelines.
#1, Everyone’s siddur (that I know of) says “viAl tivienu lo lidei nisayon” in Shacharis? So if one’s children are raised so well, then why do they bother davening to not be given nisyonos? Was that Yihi ratzon intended for “the other person’s” kids?
Obviously, what this mother writes about should be a cause for concern for any parent whose kids are up in the mountains unsupervised. (Perhaps how much concern one would have might depend on how well-raised their kids are, but I can’t imagine that anyone can be absolutely sure that any teenager is 100% guaranteed to not be nichshal, chas viShalom.)
May we all hear only bisuros tovos.
I must agree with writer #1. You can’t shield your children from the real world. What do you think will happen if these kids meet and enjoy some time together? Aren’t they under enough pressure all year ’round at school? If a child is raised properly a parent will have nothing to fear. Perhaps some marriages may come of their socializing.
It is quite normal for a parent to worry about sending their child into a questionable situation.
i am a former owner of a resturant located near four corners between fallsburg and woodbourn. what i saw take place in a house located in the erea (i rented one floor there) is something so bad the lives of the teens involved are forever scared and i feel that every parent who sent their kid upstate as well as every familey who hired these teens and did not supervise them will forever be held accountable. i cant spell out details here, all i can say is that i was a teen when i was there and was scared from it. the mountains are a source for much disaster with our presiouse children. please please i beg you dont send your kids there. if you do you will only have yourself to blame.
The problem here is that we stress all day long you have to learn Torah. We forget about everything else – like respect yourself – respect other people and respect Hashem. For a young Jewish person to defile themselves so easely can only come from no self respect. Let us realize that our obligations is more then just to tell everyone how we are learning Torah but to realy observe all of the 613 commandments to treat all people and ourselves and ulltimatly Hashem with Respect.
Dont get me wrong ,learning Torah is GREAT THING, however lets not forget who we are – a nation and a family with one purpose – ” Serve Hashem”
I’m glad #1 feels he can be complacent because he’s done such a bang up job in his own kids’ chinuch. Now on to the normal world.
yeshiva11230, although oversimplifying it, brings up a good point. I think it cannot be debated too much. That is, “How much ‘shielding my children’ is too much?”
A good argument can be made that children who have come into regular contact with “less frum” elements can actually be less likely to fall under the influence of such people when they are on there own. Because these kids have been taught to understand that there are all kinds of people out there, all of them are basically Jews, but you kids were raised to be better/different, etc. your life will ultimately be more fulfilling and happier for it.
Having seen non-frum, or “less” frum Jews in the bright light of day, they will have learned that all that glitters is not gold.
On the other hand, kids that have never been able to speak to anyone who isn’t exactly like they are, are more likely to be curious to see what it’s all about, and will check it out under the worst circumstances, without any adult parent to give commentary and context.
One thing you can do is get them a “kosher” phone, i.e. one WITHOUT the capacity to text message. Think about it, why would kids want to text when they can talk? The answer – because the communications they are having they SHOULDN”T BE HAVING, and they don’t want others to hear or to know!!! Think I’m wrong? Next time you see your daughter, unexpectedly ask to see her phone and read her text messages! See which one of you passes out first!
number 1 you must be very young.
Either you don’t have children or are very naive! A person, no matter what age, can be influenced in a second when caught unawares! A sheltered, well raised teen does not suspect FOUL PLAY!!!! May you never experience this within your family & may H-Shem bring Mashiach very quickly & TICHLEH SHANA VEKILELOSEHA!!!!
Talk to them, every day, use this summer as an opportuntyity to grow your relationship.
I can not stress how important talking to your children is.
(#1 you obviously do not have teenaged girls)
Good luck
I find this all very hard to believe. So, the girls are mothers helpers. Where are the good frum boys coming from? And this partying is taking place in an empty bungalow or summer home, that is surrounded by other bungalows and homes. And the parents or other neighbors allow this partying to go on?
My guess is that children who come from good frum homes with the proper upbringing, will be revolted by this type of partying and will not want to participate?
Unfortunately, there are children with various “issues” who don’t act in a way that is appropriate for them. Most parents are aware of their childrens strengths and shortcomings. I think that your hysterical outrage is unfounded.
#1, unfortunately you are totally wrong. Talk to the askanim who deal with at risk kids and you will hear that many come from homes that are used as examples of how children should be raised. The yetzer hara davka creeps into these homes so no one is immune. But what I can’t understand is, why is the mother of many daughters sending her son/daughter into these places if she knows about the danger of going there? There is no excuse in the world that can justify that just as you wouldn’t send anyone to Harlem in the middle of the night (or day) for parnosoh or any reason. Ya’azot Hashem we should have the right seichel.
To Yeshiva11230: It is true that there is such a concept in education and parenting that says that the way to see how one is succeeding as a parent/teacher is to watch how the students/children behave out of the class/home. However, for you to respond so rudely to a mother’s concerns about her daughter shows everyone that you obviously are not a parent. No matter what, no matter how good of a parent one is, they will ALWAYS worry about their children. Perhaps this mother does trust her daughter but is actually concerned about the boys and/or other girls that she might be around! And for such a “Yeshiva” person not to realize that there is a situation of “Ein Apitropis L’arayos” causes me to question your username. I personally took insult to your inconsiderate comment, because,as both a parent and educator, I know what it is like to constantly worry, even though I trust that I have done all that I can for my children/students.
Did you research the colony & supervision before sending them off?
Maybe your daughters shouldn’t have texting?? Isn’t that what our Gedolim have recommended??
In response to yeshiva11230:
The issues this woman is talking about are happening to children from the finest homes with the best upbringing.
If you would listen to what the mechanchim and rabbonim are saying you would know that this problem is not isolated to only “problem” teens.
We have to wake up to the dangers of today, with new technology and new tactics of the yetzer horah. It is a magefah, you cannot always blame the parents.
May Hashem help us to see nachas iy’h from all our children.
Recognizing the reality of peer pressure on even the most properly-raised children, our Gedolei Torah (sages of the real REAL world) in Eretz Yisroel have encouraged the use of kosher cell phones which don’t connect to the internet and can’t send text messages. It’s a long-standing Torah principle not to put oneself in a makom sakanah, and that applies to both the spiritual and the physical. The greatest success is to recognize a danger and to stay as far away from it as possible.
comment to “yeshiva11230” — that is so unfair! i’m sure her daughters have a wonderful upbringing! how many times have you heard that children that EXCELLENT STRONG BACKING HOMES have gotten involved in the wrong crowds??? These girls are human and like every other human out there have a Yetzer Harah and at the same time are happy to get out and have a good time. Often they don’t realize it is a gathering with boys and girls. The girls can also be thinking to themselves, ‘oh this couldn’t happen to me!’ i’m not worried about getting involved in the wrong crowd! In addition, sometimes the girls feel it is nerdy to say ‘i’m not going’! so, they can fall in that way too! PEER PRESSURE! i personally feel for you! we all need Siyata Dishmaya and IY”H may your girls come back untouched and refreshed and rejuvinated to start a new year in school.
signed, a concerned parents of teenage children as well who DID and CONTINUE to have a good upbringing.
i surely feel for you! i’m sure you are a wonderful mother/parent(s)! don’t be paranoiyed by yeshiva11230’s comment! it wasn’t nice! just try and be in constant touch with your girls and make them aware of the dangers so that they know what to stay away from! the awareness helps! hatzlocha rabbah! please let us all concerned parents let us know how the summer turned out for them so that we can breathe a sigh of relief for you!
Hi, I’m a 19 year old yeshiva bachur and I’m not considered “yeshivish” but I’m a frum boy and I can tell you that unfortunately your 100% right I know what goes on and its very scary. So you ask what can be done? Well to begin there’s not much you can do however there are a few things you can do. To tell you the truth I’ve been around with my friends who went places and did certain things that were wrong and bad but I did not go along with them or do the things with them for one reason and one reason only… I thought of my parents… They trusted me so much but at the same time were sometimes very on top of me. Let me explain… When I was home they will call me at 11:00 asking me were I was, who I was with etc. But when I went away for the summer or on vacation with my friends they never made me crazy, they let me enjoy myself and just have a good time I felt they trusted me but were just sometimes worried and that stopped me from doing or going places I shouldn’t. So please or the talk about taking away cell phones or keeping them home and not letting them move is a terrible thing because it will backfire I guarantee it. If you really care which I can tell you do from your letter give them some room but let them know your worried because its a crazy world don’t go crazy on the stupid things like sneakers, T shirts, pants etc. Be firm on the important things like girls and hanging out in bad places. My parents would never tolerate hanging out in bad places or girls that’s one of the main reasons I never did it because I knew that was the line I can’t cross and yes I do smoke but even though my parents are against it they won’t go crazy about it they talk to me about it how bad it is but its not the end of the world but yedishkeit they were serious about and I knew it meant the world to them. You have to know what the few important things for you are that your children should know they can’t go there and if you make that list endless none of it will be followed because you will suffocate them. You can still talk to them about how to dress and smoking (for boys) and what size yarmulka and tzitzis in or out but those are not the things that you should kill your kids for I feel the most dangerous things are girls, hangouts and drugs (which is becoming alarmingly common). Good luck and daven a lot.
I still tend to agree with 11230;the # 1 comment Mine was 3)
Parents in the goyishe world have been lax since the 60’s with the ‘anything-goes,free love’ schmutz and their culture has invaded the Torah world. In many homes there is only one parent or both work.Kids hide their knowledge of worldly matters from their parents and win their trust. They trade videos,go to friends’ homes and their peers in school influence them,too. In the country,fathers stay in the city during the week,so young mothers need mother’s helpers in the bungalow colonies. The girls can’t work as slaves.so they get time off and sometimes a mother has to go stay away for a night,leaving the bungalow adult-less. The other teen s will then go to that bungalow to party while the babies are sleeping .SUPERVISION,is key as is good home upbringing. Hidden video cameras are a good tool to have at home.
These kids are taught that they must learn all day from books but not from good role models. Good manners,which we called “derech ertz” has been thrown to the wayside along with halocho,history,mussar and (gasp!) secular studies. The teens are ill-prepared for the outside world.When my parents and grandparents were teens,boys and girls did activities and went to school together and they became very frum responsible people. Society has an effect on our people,but parents MUST educate their children and supervise them and they must learn to trust ,love ,and respect them.
#30,
There really is no such thing as a “kosher” cell phone. All Cell phones enable a teenager to contact anyone he or she wants to at any location. It also enables the child to be contacted by any boy / girl anonymously and have “secret” conversations. It enables the children to feel secure going to places that they shouldn’t because they know they can reach any one of their “friends” any hour of the day or night in total privacy.
Besides, when you give your child a “kosher” cell phone and blatantly say this is kosher, it will be a very short time before they upgrade to the full featured cell phones with all the texting and internet pornography they can dream of.
What is wrong with explaining to your children that children do not need cell phones, period? They can use the payphones in camp or in school! Every camp and yeshiva has payphones. This one message is the greatest tool we have to keep our children safe – use payphones and not cell phones.
The reason these kids are doing wrong is obvious. They all have parents like #1, who says its okay to let their yetzer hara tempt them because he raised them well.
The parents said yes, the yetzer hara tempted, and the kids fell.
May Hashem have mercy on us and on our children, if these parties are taking place on the camp/bungalow grounds, isn’t there a single guy with yiras shomayim around to demand a complete separation of boys and girls????????? we will be reading parshas pinchos this week, CAN IT BE THAT THERE IS NOONE WILLING TO STICK UP FOR HASHEM CHAS V’SHOLOM (i only know of one r zecharia wallerstein may Hashem bless him, who is not afraid to stand up to teenagers and show them the torah way)
EVERYONE OUT THERE IN THE CATSKILLS IS RESPONSIBLE IF THEY TURN A BLIND EYE, PLEASE OPEN YOUR EYES, WE HAVE LOST TOO MANY PEOPLE IN THE LAST THREE WEEKS, DOESN’T THAT MEAN ANYTHING TO US????????
to “yeshiva”11230 i could not think of a more insensitive, shallow, naive and immature thing to say! the writer clearly wrote that she was worried about arranged parties that were “alluring GOOD frum teenage boys and girls from the finest homes”. so by saying that she faulted in her child up bringing you obviously didnt read the article. furthermore, the issue that was brought up in this article is unfortunately well known and has caused disasters in some of the most prestigous families in klal yisroel, and is therefore a highly sensitive topic, and i am shocked that all you could think to reply is to further insult a concerned parent who is very justified for being concerned! to YWN editor: i am shocked that, given the sensitivity and importance of this article, you allow such a mockery of a comment to be posted, especially the first one!!!
to the mother- maybe now is the time behind the scenes to arrange night time activity in the bungalow for your daughters. doesn’t have to be expensive. maybe you can speak to the mothers in the bungalow and they can take turns preparing an activity for the girls. wishing you hatzlocha.
Can I add a little story here…? A student of Reb Elya Lapian ztl was caught going to the beach. When summoned to Reb Elya he commented that these things dont bother him. To which Rav Elya replied (roughly)is there something wrong with you? I am an old man and I still have a yetzer hora…! The point is simple. Rav Elya was a Talmid Chochom and above all a phenomenal baal mussar but in the words of Perek Al taamin beatzmecho ad yom moscho.. we must never do something that increases yetzer hora. However good the upbringing we must never allow testing circumstances to happen. The letter writer is right to be worried. BTW I have teenage daughters, so I know!!
the thought of having my kids in such places gives me the chills,causing me to implement a new rule in the house, that any of my kids under the age of 21 must be back in the bungelow at 10:30 at night,and they know if they have a problem with this they could find another place to live.In my house IM BOSS
Dear Rabbi TurkeyNeck:
I too, encourage normalcy in this world of madness, with fun, happiness, and open communication with no fears as the mainstay. It is exactly for this reason that I know that the only safeguard in this world is siyata deshmaya. We parents don’t begin to understand the temptations and the dangers that our children face every single solitary minute that they are out of the house whether they are safely ensconced in good yeshivas or bais yakovs. This is not about cell phones with texting (though of course the expedited communication has only expedited the disaster) its about the lovely child from the best home that has befriended your son/daughter and you have no idea how troubled and confused he/she is until it is too late. It’s about letting your kid out of the house on a Shabbos afternoon with a truly wonderful child and them meeting another child on their way who can influence them in a devastating way. I can go on and on, as this is something I am aware of due to my positive communication with my kids and accepting personality. My blood may curdle but I maintain that smile and keep them talking because I want to know and I want them to always speak to me first. And I would still be afraid to send them up to the Catskills in today’s age, just like this mother. We ARE talking about GOOD children from GOOD homes.
Dear Mom,
All we can do is daven. You didn’t specify the details, so if you can possibly keep your girls back, then do so. B’Ezras Hashem, may you see only nachas.
Do the families who hire the mother’s helpers take no responsibility for the girls looking after their children? Is it just, keep the children out of my hair during the day. and you can do what you want with the rest of your time?
We daven everyday to keep Nisyanos away. And we parents PLACE our children in a Makom Nisayon?
What is WRONG WITH US?!
Does anyone else think these letters are made up? These parties may exist, I have no idea and it wouldn’t surprise me. But, just the actual letter here, can I get a vote on who thinks these things are made up? Nobody writes like that.
I was a teenager in the 70’s. I am female. There were those who did things that they shouldn’t be doing and there were those who didn’t. This goes back to when I was a teen and I’m sure before that as well. A child needs to be raised with a strong set of values and morals. If he child sees good things at home that will enforce the things you teach him/her. We need to have an open house to our childrens friends this way we can see who they hang out with. It’s not the bungalow colonies that are at fault or the sleep away camps, its the individuals who try to influence the kids in a bad way. the most important thing you can teach your child is to think for him/herself. Not to be led by peer pressure. Sure, I had friends who drank and did drugs, but I didnt drink or do drugs.The same holds true throughout adulthood. Every person needs to be strong and be responsible for their actions. Do not be influenced by others. If you are not comfortable with certain people in certain situations, do NOT go there! Do NOT hang out with those people. You will find you are not alone in those feelings.
Be strong, it pays off !
i know kids in the 80’s-90’s that went to he mountains , then it was bad . On the other hand if your daughters were sent with a teacher or rebbi who they know is looking out for them then it could be ok . I think everyone faces the problem on some level . The summer is very long and even if you can afford to send your kids to one half of sleep away camp they still have about 6- 7 weeks with out something to do!!
some ideas:
1.Making a backyard daycamp it teaching them alot of good skils.But it is a bit hard because you might have to give up your house or be the driver for some trips .
2. teenage girls can begin to take some collage course many schools allow clepping after 10th grade
Don’t think that this is anything new. As an MO boy 30 yrs. ago, counselor in a bungalow colony was a dream job. The ratio of girls to boys was about 10 to 1. Good boys + good girls + no supervision = Big Trouble!
In my eyes there is only one way out of this mess,all girls and boys need to get the Kosher phone. before my daughter went to camp,we got her the purely voice cell AKA kosher phone,she is very happy with it and so are we.
It’s a catch 22, the camps that provide the best influence for our children will not accept children from the wrong families or who cannot afford the camp fees. There would be no need for useless kiruv outfits that are only supported to ease the conscience of those who would not associate with or accept these families.
As the brisker rav put it “TEHILLIM & TEARS” period
This is a problem that is, tragically, not isolated to summer in the Catskills.
I grew up summering in the Catskills in the 1960s. The same sort of issues existed then, and they probably existed into the 1970s and 1980s, and here we find ourselves today.
The difference is that in 1964, the “off the derech” activity was to find a secluded spot and drink beer – but with boys, only. In the 1970s, the boys and girls were getting together (by that time I was old enough to be “settled down,” but young enough to know what was going on in the youth community), but the major offense was that they were going to local bowling alleys and smoking cigarettes in the parking lots. Seems kind of quaint by today’s standards.
The bottom line is that the kids (myself included) often break out and induldge in things that were occuring in general society. And as general society has moved from “beer with the boys” to cigarettes to R’L much worse, our communities have not been as insulated as the blind among us would like to believe.
It is not the fault of bad parenting; it is not the fault of mechanchim; it is not the result of a rotten economy. Camps were always expensive, and exclusive. The major problem, IMHO, is that too many people refuse to believe that our community reflects general society. So, if there is gambling in goyishe velt, guess what – we have that problem, too. There are yiddeshe women’s shelters because nebach, R’L, some men lack the intelligence to simply leave the room, and instead inflict their rage on their wives. And, there are drug abuse programs in our velt, too.
Hopefully, the incidence of these matters is proportionally less in our community than in the general society. But the most important thing is to stop believing that we and our children are inherently above all others, and the tempations taht afflict others will never visit their plagues on us. They will.
The only bit of advice I’ve used in my own life is to not assur my kids from everything. In a perfect world, I would prefer my son change his clothes after havdoloh and hit the beis medresh for an hour before playing ball; but, that is not his nature. So, we agree that he plays at the local gym, and we agree that if I stop in at any time on a motzei Shabbos, he’ll be there. And guess what – he is. Some mutual trust goes a long way.
I dont know about you but people dont spend all that money to send thier children to sleepaway camp for nothing its to keep them off the street in my day and still today the girls that went to be counslers in daycamps were not the good girls im not talking if you parents were there but ofcourse that is not a rule .IM NOT SAYING THERE IS NO BAD INFLUNCE IN CAMP BUT THERE ARE COUNSLERS AND HEAD COUNSLERS that take responibality of your child and to say that if you give the right chinuch to your child then you wont have problems or they wont be temmpted is too funny for words how old are you do you have any excperice at all its to funny for word what you put into your child and what comes out sometime does not add up i hope you dont have to learn it the hard way
In addition to all the good suggestions here, discipline from an early age and more hands-on parenting is the antidote. Yes, it’s tremendous work to take care of a raise children, but just teaching them lessons and giving mussar is not enough. Those that have more one on one time with their parents will avoid the nonsense more.
#44 said “Parents in the goyishe world have been lax since the 60’s with the ‘anything-goes,free love’ schmutz and their culture has invaded the Torah world.”
#64 said “too many people refuse to believe that our community reflects general society”
You know, this is all nonsense. Good secular parents would NEVER send their pre-collage-age children to go away and work unsupervised for the summer. You don’t just abandon your kids (religious or not) and tell children who have never had to make these kinds of decisions before to go off on their own for a whole summer. The goyishe world would consider this to be highly irresponsible parenting. Goyishe children (at least those from good families) are gradually given increasing amounts of responsibility and slowly decreasing amounts of parental guidance/involvement. A goyishe parent who tried this would be told that they were guilty of child neglect (some of those mother’s helpers are pretty young).
What do you think is likely to happen when you wrap your children up in wool to protect them from “the world” and then all but dump them out on the street for the summer once they hit a specific age? Don’t blame this on the secular world.
Take a deep breath –
Summer 2008 there was a huge uproar about “all sorts of boy / girl trouble in the Catskills”. Turns out, the number of hard-core trouble makers is 20 or less. The problem is, the good kid, in a good group spots (or get spotted by) an ex-classmate and go over to say hello. Next thing you know, “5 good girls / good boys were seen at xyz hanging out with the worst elements”.
See how fast that story gets spun?
But to take some of the heat off today’s kids, who can blame them? Parents ask thier teen girls to essentialy run the house (because how can one mother juggle 3 kids under the age of 4?)so why should’nt a teenager think of herself as an adult? I’ve seen my boys pull together bein hazmanim plans with the savvy of a seasoned travler, so getting around the Catskills is childs play. The only known antidote? Make sure you have a relationship with your kids, so THEY will be reluctant to do something you’d be disapointed in should it come to light.
P.S. – The colony I go to used to hire off-site girls as counslors. For the past few years (in response to a problem we saw developing) counslors are only taken from residents. Moral of the story: your teen child NEEDS TO BE SUPERVISED!
BP Totty
While I appreciate the compliments, for the record, I am the father of three FRUM adult children and a grandfather.
As a teenager, I worked in the mountains and that is where I met my ayshis chayil, who was working in a bungalow colony camp as a counselor. I am well aware of what does and can go on in camps and bungalows.
Most of the complaints I have read so far are about things to worry about with YOUNG children, which is NOT what working in a bungalow colony is about. The children who are working in camps or bungalow colonies are YOUNG ADULTS. They MUST be allowed to grow up. For those of you who think that there are no bad influences in camps or yeshivot and bais yakovs, let me shed some light on this: There are DRUGS and ALCOHOL in EVERY camp and yeshiva/bais yakov. There are NO exceptions to this. There are good and bad children in EVERY camp and yeshiva/bais yakov. There are NO exceptions to this. Its about time, that PARENTS take responsibilty for their children and not try to see who is going to be ‘responsible’ for them. It’s not the principals, the rebbeim, the teachers, the camp directors, counselors, or even Hashem who is responsible for them. YOU ARE!!!!! Stop blaming cell phones, TV, computers, the internet, movies, books, magazines, billboards etc. Start acting like adults and teach your children and be responsible for them. You have to talk to them and LISTEN to them. You have to explain to them and not just ASSUR things to them.
Many people here have suggested getting the kids Kosher phones without texting. This will only help so much – chavra chvra is lei… if they have a friend in the colony who has texting or a friend’s friend, the word will get to them, perhaps not as easily but it will. This is why it is important to make sure your child has a good group of friends. Encourage them to spend time with the good friends and strongly discourage the others.
The only solution is supervision. Kids in camp have counselors “in charge of them”, the camp administrators should make sure that someone is “in charge of” the counselors and younger staff, etc. This works well in camp environments. In bungalow colonies parents should be aware of what their children are up to at all times. If the parents are not there, don’t send the kids alone, make sure someone is in charge of them, everyone must have supervision. Any parent who does not do this is evil.
To #46: The yetzer hara is there to temp, true. It is the parent’s responsibility to teach what temptation means and how it should be dealt with. Trying to hide from the yetzer hara is absurd. Anyone who says they have no yetzer hara is a fool.
To #48: What does “alluring GOOD frum teenage boys and girls from the finest homes” even mean? Is your home ‘better’ than someone elses? Who makes that decision except Hashem, and he’s not printing it here. You also wrote this “has caused disasters in some of the most prestigous families in klal yisroel”. Most prestigious families? Again, where is this description of honor coming from? On what basis? We are ALL Jews, shomrei torah and mitzvos. How dare you use these types of nonsensical descriptions!! Why would the loss of ANY Jewish child matter more from any particular family?
to #43 – 19 year old yeshiva bochur:
thank you so much for taking the time out of sharing your honest opinion about the situation as a whole! it is quite interesting to hear it from a teenage boy prospectus!!! i’m sure it gave many parents an insight to this whole picture that much more! so, thanx again for your time and downright honest feelings and thoughts! MUCH APPRECIATED! (i have an 18 year old son and your words have helped me!) may you have continued hatzlocha in all that you do! and i’m proud of you that you followed what you knew your parents wanted you to do or didn’t want you to do!
The comments on this article can be divided into 2 categories: parents who have experience with kids who test the waters; and parents whose kids are lemeles and BH do not know what trouble is.
To #1 and all those who claim that this writer did not raise her kids well if she is concerned, I must tell you that you have a long way to go in understanding today’s world.
I have both type of kids and I can tell you that however much you show your exploring kid what the dangers are, he will want to find out for himself.
Anyone who thinks that a teenager who enjoys a bit of fun will not join a party out of curiosity is totally naive.
These kids spend the whole day babysitting other people’s kids and by the end of the one or 2 weeks they are desperate for an outlet.
Then the text comes from a “friend” to join a little party and “chill”. Until they go there for the first time, they do not know what to expect.
Once they have arrived, peer pressure usually wins out and they find it hard and “not cool” to walk away. So they stay and even if they just watch they will see boys/girls getting high on alcohol and drugs and what usually follows is dancing etc…znus….
The kid is disgusted and cannot wait to get out of there, but something inside stirs and this lures them back to the next party. This time they are familiar with the routine and when asked to join a dance they accept the offer.
The third time they are waiting for the text message and dress up (down) for the occasion ….
What I am describing here is simply the techniques of the Yetzer Hora.
How did Benei Yisroel come to sin with Bnos Moav? Chazal say that outside the tents were old ladies dressed with headcovers and maybe face covers selling things. Once the men came to see what they were selling, the women told then that inside were much nicer items. Inside the tent were young girls dressed to kill and they seduced the men. Had they been on the outside, the men would have run away, but once they were “in” the tent and their interest had been tickled they were prey for the yetzer!
I am not sure that there is a way to prevent the kids going to the parties, but they should be well informed beforehand that these parties exist and should be told what goes on there. Warn them that those boys are not interested in a relationship however much they tell them how nice they look and how much they love them. They will probably not even recognize them the next day when they sober up.
They must be taught the difference between kosher fun and dangerous treif fun by telling them what the end results of the latter could be.
In addition, arrange as much entertainment for them for the evenings. Spend money on good games, kosher videos (yes!!! kosher videos!!!) and fun activities so that they will not be bored in the evenings.
Hashem Yaazor!!!
As a representative of Ohr Naava – I couldnt agree more with #73! These “good” kids are the reason we created our Motzei Shabbos program in Kiamesha Lanes – where we rent out the bowling alley exclusively for girls – specifically so that they don’t get lured into other things and because they need a place to be ..to go..to do something fun, an OUTLET, which as #73 mentioned, they are DESPERATE for. We provide KOSHER fun. Last Motzei Shabbos we had over 250 girls from ALL walks of life who had a blast, eating pizza, dancing and singing together and bowling of course! All in a discretely supervised environment. Ohr Naava provides free shiurim and activities nightly in Brooklyn and we took upon ourselves the responsibility to take care of our girls while they’re in the mountains – giving them something to do and keep them SAFE! for more info I can be reached at 718-853-6190 or [email protected]
Yes, #74 I heard about Ohr Naava. They do wonderful,exemplary and extremely necessary work, with girls. They are willing to go that extra mile at great expense to make sure that girls stay out of trouble and have a ‘Kosher” outlet in the Catskills as well as in New York City. Rabbi Zecharya Wallerstein the director of Ohr Naava should be lauded and supported. I heard from girls that this past Motzei Shabbos was amazing. Much continued success and Siata Dishmaya!
to rabbi turkeyneck:I really think its the turkey in you thats talking how could you possibly promise that if you follow these guidlines you will have success with you children do you realize that hashem runs the world and you cant possibly fullfill every childs needs every child is different and you can never know what the childs taavos really are and the child might not even realize it himself.You are living in an imaginary niave world and I hope that your kids really grow up to be yaaray shamayim to a level where they are also living in a perfect world a world with no yaatzer harah
dontbestupid , I guess it’s the stupid in your name talking!
Nobody said my kids live in a world of no yetzer hara, and belive me, I have tons of experience with boys, girls and married ppl from all walks of life.
I am also a human being who clearly remembers being a teenager and the nisyonos I had.
And the above is how I know I am right.
I had parents who raised me the way I described above, and therefore I was able o withstand the nisyonos, and to know the difference between innocent fun and dangerous fun.
And I knew the cheshbonos of why it wasn’t worth going for the illicit fun even if it seemed a little more exciting than the kosher fun.
Along with the love and attention and self-confidence my parents instilled in me, they also halped me attain a little Yiras Shamayim, not a ton, I’m no Tzaddik, but enough so I could withstand the challenges.
And with proper preparation, one can always withstand challenges.
Your comment about Hashem running the world is incredibly foolish; of course he runs the world, which is why we are always able to beat the Yetzer Hara, you somehow think it means that there are some challenges that are unbeatable because “Hey, Hashem runs the world”.
The ONLY thing we as human beings can do in this world is make good choices, execise Bechira, that’s the one thing Hashem does not run. But he does only place us in situations where we can choose correctly.
I restate my promise, raise your kids correctly, and they will make the right choices.
And PS, correctly doesn’t mean always pushing chumros, an occasional kosher video, in moderation and with parental oversight, is often the exact right decision.
Hatzlacha to everyone…and don’t let people fool you, how your kids turn out is very much up to you.
it is true that a parent molds their own child and you can think that someone from a solid home is less likely to “sucumb” to these dangers but in reality a parent can only provide a certain amount for there child. they can protect them when they are with them, and they can prepare them for when they leave the house. But they cannot prepare them for every single situation! and it is extremly tempting and easy for anyone to sucumb to these dangers because these children are just beginging to experience the real world.parents can only do a certain amount so please do not blame the parents. it is a community problem and it is easy to say “it is the parents fault” until you are the parent!