Former senior government minister and head of the Shinui anti-Orthodox party, Tommy Yosef Lapid, died in hospital of cancer at the age of 77.
Lapid, a Holocaust survivor, was a senior journalist and television personality until taking a turn into the political arena, launching the Shinui Party, which earned 15 seats, landing him the post as justice minister. He served in Knesset from 1999-2006. The party disappeared off the political map and Lapid left politics, returning to his former career.
Lapid, born Tomislav Lampel in Yugoslavia to a Hungarian Jewish family, also served as Chairman of Yad Vashem, a former director-general of the Israel Broadcasting Authority, chairman of the cable TV union, and chairman of the Israel Chess Society.
He was known for his pro-secular views and his disdain for chareidim, especially his political nemesis, the Sephardic Shas Party. He launched Shinui in an effort to curtail the growing political power of chareidim, especially the Shas Party. He was a very close associate of PM Ehud Olmert.
(Yechiel Spira – YWN Israel)
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65 Responses
B’mos Reshaim Rina! The aibishter should have rachmanus on his neshama!
I GUESS HE JUST FOUND OUT THE REAL EMES
some comments are better left unsaid. I guess we know all about this one.
Yisroel af al pi shechoto yisroel hu.
Baruch Dayan Emes
Shem reshaim yirkav
Baruch Dayan HaEmes
ALthough he was anti-charedi, none of us can judge him, or any other Holocaust survivor
Welcome to purgatory.
this is one of the nicest part of the YIDESHE FULK, that when he was alive we were all out to ….him. but now we care about him (the REAL him, his Neshume)
& his freinds from this world , dont.
Good riddance!May his philosophy and beliefs die with him.
sammygol, I had similar thoughts; well said.
#7 Im not sure if your frum or not. it sounds like your not from your statement, which runs against all things our torah stands for.
sammygol – The Satmar Rebbe said a survivor could give a brocho after going thru gehenim and still keeping the Torah. The Rebbe hadn’t given license to a survivor to make his whole tafkid in life to fight the Torah, spread hatred against those who kept the Torah. He would still be a rosho despite his status as a survivor.
sammygol – Someone who spits on the Torah every day and makes it his life goal to uproot the Torah is a rosha mrusha any way you cut it.
Dan lkav zchus may be applied to a Torah Jew who is accused or convicted by the corrupt courts, but not to someone who publicly seeks to destroy the Torah and all associated with it.
the issue is not the person, he is of little relevance – the simcha is that there is one less soldier in the war against hashem – one less voice that opposes the torah – the holocaust was precisely bec of these people amongst the yiden that declared war on hashem, going through the holocaust, as much as we cant fathom the yisurim that they lived through doesnt excuse anyone from the keeping the torah – possibly i myself would have chas veshalom not withstood the nisayon but that doesnt excuse it
15,
What was wrong with comment Nos. 7,,,???
Get a life, Haimi!
Jos,
Those who went through the Nazi Horror WILL NOT be judged on the same standard as those who did not, not here and not in the world to come,,,PERIOD!
There is a famous story of a Holocaust survivor who was brought up in a very frum family.
During the war they were all sent to Auschwitz and he witnessed the ultimate nightmare, his family all shot before his eyes.
This man survived the war all alone , came to America and became totally irreligious.
He DID stand on one basic principle.He insisted that he will always fast on Tisha Baav but NOT on YK. His reasoning was simple(according to him).
T’B was a sad day, a day of destruction and sorrow. He went through the same thing during the Nazi Gehenom, so he understood it.
‘Yom Kippur?’ he asked, ‘ G-d has complaints on me??? I was brought up a shomer Torah Umitzvos, my father was a tzaddik and look at what happened!, MAYBE ‘I’ have complaints on HIM!’
Anyone dare to judge him??
1. The Holocaust is an understandable excuse for turning away from (or even hating) Hashem (albeit, not correct). However, even the Holocaust is not an excuse for hating fellow Yidden! Demanding to be allowed to be Michalel Shabbos is one thing, Demanding that everyone should be Michalel Shabbos is another. The Torah doesn’t sympathize with Achav.
2. #9 Holyland spoke well. It’s not his death that we sought, rather the death of his wicked actions.
3. I hope that Teshuva was on his lips before he died. On this we can’t judge. You never know what a person’s last thoughts were when death stares him in the face.
Bemos reshaim rina. When a tzaddik leaves this world and has done countless mitzvos, limud hatorah and gemilus chasodim they all follow him up to shamaiyim and are mailitz yosher on him. A tzadik leaves this world with people following his legacy and leaving a positive impression on the people left here. In this case, nebach, we can say the oposite. Tommy has left a legacy of hate where the “sinah” to the chareidim has grown immensly and viv-a-versa. It will have long lasting effects and will need a lot of ahavas yisroel to overcome the great “sinah” that was created. Also, tommy was the architect of cutting funds to yeshivos and child allowances. It has become almost impossible for a chareidi family to exist in the current system. Let us all be mekabel on ourselves to go the extra step towards loving our fellow jew even if they are not the same as us and maybe hkb”h will have rachmunus on his neshamah.
Let’s be happy that a bad influence is gone and that whatever he did right or wrong will be judged only by Hashem.
Hashem said, Maaseh Yuday Toveim B’Yam V’Atem Omrim Shirah? This was regarding REAL RESHAIM – the Mitzrim! To all of you who think you understand the Cheshbonos of Shamayim and rejoice in Lapid’s death, do you know how how you would have reacted to the gehenom Lapid saw in Aushwitz? It is very possible that you would have joined him in his anti – charedi agenda. Our job is not to judge him. We fought his policies while he was alive because we disagreed and felt they were a danger to Torah life in Israel. Now that he has passed on to the Olam Ha’Emes, let us leave the judging up to the Ribono Shel Olam. It is easy to sit in your fancy home in flatbush / Lakewood and inform the world of what a “rasha” he was. Try doing so from the cattle cars and then the barracks of Aushwitz. Hate the sin, love the sinner. Leave the Din Emes to Hakadosh Baruch Hu!!! May Hashem have Rachmunus on his neshama , despite his wrongheaded ideals.
Tommy Lapid’s close association with Olmert says a lot about Olmert & where he stands re Frumkeit/Chareidim.
A Yid is dead, & the deliberate damage he caused other Yidden is probably immeasurable. However, it just proves that we all die the same way & “good” Jew or not, I’m sure his Kevruah was the same as any G-d fearing Jew’s. Unless, of course, he was cremated or some such abomination.
Maybe his Neshama has some Menucha now. G-d really is The Boss; I’d like to think Mr. Lapid did Teshuva right before he died. But then again, I’m an optimist.
I think enough has been said and YWN can close comments on this thread.
amazing how yeshiveshers can turn so soft in when a rasha dies!
the guy was a total jerk. his whole political career was aimed at fighting G-d and His Torah!
seriously…
I Cant beleive all olmert could say was tha tommy did everything to help jews!!!!!!!!!!!
Is he meshuga???????
We have to accept that hashem sent this guy to this world to bring about this situation!!!!!
He was only a shaliach
22, are you a shinui chussid? sounds like it. and to those who justify tommys acts with the fact that he’s a holocaust surviver, sorry i dont see the connection. being angry at hkbh for letting the shoah happen is one thing, but hating every observant jew and building up a political party with one sole intention of destroying yiddishkait, has nothing to do with the halocaust. i guess and hope the above commenters dont know his history and political agenda.
A lot ot the comments referred to tommy’s bad experience in the holocaust that drove him from yiddishkeit. I have not researched tommy’s background and how much he was affected by the holocaust. It seems to me that he was in parts of europe that were not as effected by the war till the later years. While we know and understand that europe was a terrible place to be during the war years it is possible that tommy was not as effected. Yes, he did lose his father in a concentration camp but he himself was not in one. Maybe he had to hide out but at what point do we say that a person is just a plain old apikoires and is using the holocaust as a crutch. I am sorry to say but I think that were the satmar rebbe alive today he would probably have made a seudas hodaah that this rusha was eliminated. The rebbe was dan lekaf zechus every holocaust survivor but I have my doubts on this one. Let us put this into perspective. He knew what a yid was and was an apikoires gomur, eating chazer on yom kippur. May hashem have rachmunus on his neshomah.
nameless, etc. – Its one thing if a survivor no longer is observant of any mitzvos or part of the Torah. It is quite another thing if he, like this now dead rusha mrusha, publicly spits, stomps, and desecrates the Torah every day of his life with every fiber of his being.
Such a dog deserves no sympathy, deserves no benefit of the doubt.
The Judge of all Judges & King of all Kings has the last say on the neshama of Yosef Lapid. We are wasting our time playing Gd. His life was one long tragedy, survivor of the holocaust, death of his children in a car accident, and angry at all around him. Will ask a sheyla if it is proper to learn Mishnayus for his neshama?
If a survivor would c’v become a murderer or xtian missionary, would anyone be yelling ”survivor, survivor, can’t judge him”? I’d hope not. Some things clearly cross the line. This is one of them.
Well, reading a bit about him I find out his father was killed in a concentration camp two weeks before liberation and he and his mother only survived by hiding within a latrine. That he came to Israel at 17 and served as a mechanic to the then-new IDF. He lived his life in the Jewish State and spent decades trying to make it better and stronger as he saw it.
This is your rasha.
Yes he was a strident opponent of the charedi community, especially earmarks. But if you think he was the worst problem the charedi community faces you’re kidding yourself. Not even close.
Take Shinui where most of your resentment comes from I presume. Of course it was a creation of the last decade of his 77-years of life by which you judge him. He didn’t create most of that resentment against the charedi community; rather, he harnassed it. Just how good a talk show host do you think he was?!
And what do you think started that resentment? ‘Rashaness’? I say earmarks. The haredi political parties of Israel are good at getting money; many others felt they took more then they gave and resented it.
You may disagree. But thats how it was seen by those he represented. And is still seen by many.
And what did he do as a practical matter? Maybe he aimed for more but all he stopped were earmarks at the end of the day.
And take some of you: do you think the non-charedi reading this thread come away with a good opinion of y’all. Had you been wiser and felt the sentiments you did as well as the need to express them, you’d have said what you wanted in a closed forum, i.e. to family and friends. Were you advocates for your cause here or your own worst enemies?
Just because you can’t judge him for being a Rosho, does not nean he was not a Rosho. That is rediculouse.
And also don’t dare compare those who left Torah but did so sadly and reluctently, to one who was a proud enemy of anything that had to do with Torah. He was a strong exited supporter of any immorality.
Any one whom the war made leave the path of Torah was not all there to begin with. That is the depth of what the Satmar Rav was saying: One who proved himself to be a true Maamin through and through is worthy of giving Brachos.
It’s fairly clear that most of you never read anything Tommy Lapid wrote or said on the role of religiion vis-a-vis the state. True he was not personally observant. As far as I know we was not religious before WWII. Like so many Hungarian Jews, he was not rasied within the warm embrace of Halachik Judaism. But Lapid never begrudged anyone his right to be religious. He was however staunchly opposed to chika datit, statutorily imposed religious observance. He also was opposed to the government supporting the chareidi lifestyle, just like he oppposed any perpetual welfare, for any group in Israel. Given the current controversies surrounding giyur he may have had a point about chika datit, and considering the severe economic crises in the chareidi world, one born on of nearly sixty years of chareidim not establishing themselves as economically independant in any way, he may have had a point there too.
#28: Hashem said, Maaseh Yuday Toveim B’Yam V’Atem Omrim Shirah? This was regarding REAL RESHAIM – the Mitzrim!
That statement was ONLY made to the malachim who are single faceted. Klal Yisroel, on the other hand, who are multifaceted and can have simultaneous feelings, DID in fact SING SHIRA on the death of the MItzrim! They sang because of the great Kiddush Hashem of B’mos Reshaim Rina, while at the same time experienced Masei Hashem Tavu b’yam = meaning if ONLY the kiddush Hashem could have come thru their teshuva instead of their death!
As such I say : B’mos Reshaim Rina! The aibishter should have rachmanus on his neshama!
Sammygol,
While we all appreciate your gifted and biting one-liners, it’s obvious that you didn’t really know Tomy Lapid. As one who lived in Eretz Yisroel both before and after he came to power I can tell you first hand the horror this individual inflicted on so many of our dear acheinu bnei yisroel. Before he entered politics he was the funniest and sharpest commentator on the very famous Israeli “Popolitica” news show he was an equal opportunity basher-lacing into anything he thought was unjust religious or otherwise. After he entered politics he turned into a total anti-Torah monster hurting tens of thousands of yidden with his vicious venemous vitriolic attacks and policies.
While I agree with everyone that you can’t judge a Holocaust survivor, that too has its limits; regarding his own observance I wont and shouldnt judge him, but regarding his intense hatred towards frum yidden I have every right to judge him. In his hatred towards yidden he was a rasha of the worst sort. vshaim reshaim yirkav.
to #4 yachtzil..first,”shechoto” is past tence but not choitah . second, it doesnt pertain to one who is choite u’mactah es hurabim, and is “knimrod gibor tzeid b’shem .” yodaiah es biro umchaven l’haknito..”
to joseph..well said ..the others from all the posting we see they have wrong hashkafas,…imagine de hailige satmar rebbe would refer to such ra… to dispensing brochos..that sammygol..all of a sudden he is the satmar rebbes chosid ..all other postings one can see how his views are against our derech (ehrlicha yidden) all of a sudden when it serves his pupose he takes the vort of the heilige satmar rebbe..NO, TO GO OUT AND BE MASIS AND MADIACH YIDDEN WHICH SUCH HATE NO HOLOCOAST IS EXCUSE..L’o sahmol,
V’lo secase olof..”, yes when one went off the derch we cant judge but when mechaven l’hamrid kneged hakodeh buruch hu…will not accpt excuse
Plain and sinmple: Good Riddance
tp #22 baccai40..by the way, are you jewish? if yes a shomer torah umitzvos? you say “i hope he finally found peace..” you think it goes so fast? there is such a thing as beth din shel maleh scar v’eonesh..
to #40 cantor esq ..it is fair and clear that you dont, or dont want to know about ..see #42..what we know as fact(aka “HISTORICAL TRUTHS” EH,CANTOR ?)..
Rabbosai, It is not for us to determine the Rishus or standing of any Niftar. Why are pushata yidden handling shailos of Hashkafa as if they are the ones who are able to decide this issue. If you really need to know, ask a Godol BeYisrael. While you are there, why don’t you also ask the Gadol what would be the Halacha if before the death of Tommy Lapid a Goy would come to you with a gun and tell you to kill Tommy Lapid or else the Goy will kill you. I am not a Poseik, but don’t be suprised if the Godol tells you that you would have been obligated to give up your own life. His reasoning might well be “mai chazis dedama didach sumak tfei” who says YOUR blood is redder (read better) than his. Strange concept,no? Me a frum Shomer Torah Umitzvos and him an Ich vais nisht vos. You would have to give up your life not to kill him, because how do you know who is more valuable Klapai Shmaya. Yet many of us seem to know who is more valuable, or so it seems from the postings. Ask the Shaila please, and then we can stop debating the issue as if we have some say in the matter.
to #4 yachtzil..first,”shechoto” is past tence but not choitah . second, it doesnt pertain to one who is choite u’mactah es hurabim, and is “knimrod gibor tzeid b’shem .” yodaiah es biro umchaven l’haknito..”
Comment by jent1150 — June 1, 2008 @ 11:12 am
Maybe you want to share with us your mekor?
I have rachmonus on his black neshoma,which went through gehenom,and turned him insane.CAN WE SAY ABOUT HIM YEMACH SHMO????????????????????????????? We are glad he’s gone,shame reshoyim yircov.
There is a saying Dogs that bark don’t bite… All he did was alot of barking to get recognition and publicity. Thats what was popular. He was the real ultimate nebach.He wasn’t a roidef, he was a nebach. His punishment was that his political party dissapeared after one Knesset. Nobody took him seriously. All his barking didn’t close the doors of one Yeshiva, Cheder or Koilel.
KEN YOVDi KOL OVECHO HASHEM
#47, take a look at http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1212041442034&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull and pay careful attention to the quotes of R. Eichler, the chreidi rabbi who appeared on television with Lapid for many years. Then tell me who’s of base.
Any one whom the war made leave the path of Torah was not all there to begin with. . . .
Comment by MDshweks — June 1, 2008 @ 10:25 am
What is your empirical data for that assertion? Unless you’re prepared to prove that point, I suggest you keep your insensitive and stupid feelings to yourself.
To all those who have rachmunis on him because he went thru the holocaust, an abused person doesn’t have a right to abuse others.
To all those people who have accused me of being irreligious, I am not. I just have a brain in my head, and like to use it. My grandparents went through the Camps, and from what I’ve heard about it from them, it’s a miracle that anyone stayed religiout (they did btw)
To all those who are thinking Jews … ponder this … what right do any of us have to judge anyone who went throught the Hell of the Nazi Concentration camps? I certainly don’t
to #53..we judge according his maysim…again, to work with such hate against shomrei torah no excuse..its interesting to note those who are not shomrei torah or from their postings we can denote they hate ehliche yidden eg”chareidi ideals”,the other guy “jews are just as capable “(were not going to look where their postings are, those alwyas stick up for the rashoim EG: “blind rabbi”article(march),”crown heights man”, “indecent billbpoards” “lapid” etc but when comes to ehliche yidden they harp aginst them, this just prooves the point “oizvey torah yehallelu rasha v’shomrei torah yisgeru bom”..so me cantor esg..accustion still stands, the JP is last to be namon as they are also anti dati.. to #48m it isfor us to determin what is so obvious….also there is a din as to rashoim “moiridin vlo malin” .now we’re not saying this is a case ,but you dont seem to know such halacha exsists…eventhoug as pashateh yid mentioned that the holy chason ish paskened bizman hazeh we dont practice it..but the status of that person is still same especially if was masis umadiach
‘Baruch Dayan HaEmet’. May Yosef Lapid, a’h, an advocate for Eretz Yisrael, have a peaceful resting place.
40 cantoresq,
>>Given the current controversies surrounding giyur he may have had a point about chika datit, and considering the severe economic crises in the chareidi world, one born on of nearly sixty years of chareidim not establishing themselves as economically independant in any way, he may have had a point there too.
to #56.. we are not accusing..one can derive some oneS haskafos by their writings…you use your br ains?we also use our brains.. you use your brains to come too different conclusions and dont come with those cliches “as a child of survivors” “as a grandchild of surviviors” “as a niece of survivor” “as a next door neighbor of survivor” as one who HANGS HIS LAUNDRY UNDER THE SAME SUN OF A SURVIVOR”..you certainly dont but see #44
Ba’avod Reshaim Rina, not B’mos. At least three people misquoted the possuk.
the judging we can leave for g-d, fact is that hkbh removed a yid who was mikatreg against klal yisroel which is a good thing as chazal say. but one cannot help but feel utter pity for this wretched neshama who suffered unbearable yisurim in this world and will be subjected to unbearable yisurim in next world. we can only stand from a distance and hope that we dont g-d forbid suffer in this way. those who suffered in the camps and have lifted themselves up to build torah true homes can await for their olam habah with a cleansed soul.
# 65 writes: “the judging we can leave for g-d, fact is that hkbh removed a yid who was mikatreg against klal yisroel which is a good thing as chazal say”
Mikaterig in what way? Because he disagreed with chareidi economics and rejected their political ideas he is a kateigor against Klal Yisrael? Sadly, drivel such as this represents the sum and substance of the chareidi point of view, which essentially denies the Jewish authenticity of any non-chareidi. The fact that he respected the dati leumi community as well as the hesder movement means nothing?
Mr Lapid asked that they play Frank Sinatra’s “My Way” at his funeral per Ynetnews
t0 #64 .. qouted, misqouted…its the moral of the story that counts..
To 61
I never justified his actions, only tried to fulfill my mitzvah of being dan lekaf zechus (judging others favourably). If that makes me brainless, then I would like to be that way.
Also, check out post number 62 … that is exactly what I have been saying, here, and in all my other posts
to #72..its not as if he qouted something from another source and with different meaning. one cant always have exact wording ball peh..the moral of the story is same…”bavod”…in this case is “b’mos” (youll agree that “b’avod” doesnt mean he gets lost(in the forest?)..also we agreed that we have encyclopidia talmudist, not shas verbaitim…also we are just a plain little yiddele…so you shouldnt think your dealing with who knows what..is just when we see pepole bringing deyous that we think is kneged de way of ehliche yidden we state so, with reyous, thats why its important to state de reyous,we maybe wrong, but if one thinks so, he should bring reyous from ehrliche mekoros ,not opinions, opinions are not dass torah, anyway hatzlacha and kol tov….also while we are in discussion with you bnogayah the subject of “ein adam noikav etzboa milmata ala eim kain gozrin alov milmaleh..”remnded myself, there is another gemmorah with same theme brochos 6b.. rav huna had 400 barrels of wine that became sour..see over there..”u’me choshid kidshou brich hu deuved dina blo din?.. that he passes judgement without judging?so we really dont undrestand why your upset ..if you have differnt understanding of these gemmorhs let us know with refernces..you seem to be upset we qoute gemmorahs..so where should we look to be our spititual guide the – – – testame..c’v?
#74 – don’t be so quick to judge, jent always has a mayven next to himself before he submits his comments, So it would be fair to include him as well.
to #74 lets see mr sammygol..why would one refer to himself as mir, we, instead of i?..before you answer remember a yid tries to do everything with halachik or mussar reason,so we will wait to next post..and if interested we will refer where.. of course we have pretty far to go..to #75 yashor koach for your thoughtfullnes
to #71..that what mir(better than “we”,sammygol,thinktwicebenice?) trying to say, dan l’kaf zechus is not blank check,if true that he was maisis unadiach, choteh umachteh see post #42, also as we followed his political career, then he is b’gader “lo sachmol, v’lo sechase alov” (excuse us mr sammygol if were not quoting exactly).. also you did not refute regarding post #73 and others regarding subject at hand.. yes we will give in that we are ball gaiveh,dont qoute good,etc etc …but you didnt enfer yet to our reyous..so when you cant refute al pi torah you use third rate intelligence and engage in ad hominem…not that we ran under the table…
to #78 “because we cant know of why another person has yissurin”..these words are yours and your pshat, not tosfos and we will b’ln not elaborate on your am haratzos anymore …did you look anywhere to see what tosfot wants to farenfer with those words?, no, so your saying your am haratzishen pshat..and all those yesodos we braught down are naught…