Didn’t Rav Elya Ber Wachtfogel write a letter that R’ Chaim’s son told him that his father said that they should make a protest.
So why the change of heart?
1) can we clear instructions from gedolim
2) is it true reb aron shecter is saying tehillim by the protest??
I do believe that every godal is entitled to have his own opinion
Looks like at that time he did not yet know what the Daas of Rav Steinman was.
But anyway I almost did not even know that there was suppose to be a protest….as YWN did not even make a mention of it. All of a sudden they were sure to mention ….. Not to go.
YWN Should at least ad their own signatures to the letters
everyone should look at the failure at the kosel and see that if we dont gather in huge numbers than the anti-frum will make great inroads into us… of course we have to follow are gedolim and since there is great differences here everyone should follow there gadol. but to only present one side is skewing the facts
everyone should look at the failure at the kosel and see that if we dont gather in huge numbers than the anti-frum will make great inroads into us… of course we have to follow are gedolim and since there is great differences here everyone should follow there gadol. but to only present one side is skewing the facts. rav yosef rosenblum and other litvushe have said to go
there was always Machlokes between the Chasdish Gedolim and Lutvish Gedolim..
why does Harav Shteiman say not to go?
cause he is “Pro-Israel” and afraid of loosing Government funding….
all the Chasidim can go together even both satmar!
5 Demonstrating in America is a different model entirely than standing up for rights in your own homeland.
Ben18, Rav Shteinemann said not to go because he khows that’s the wrong way to go — the Israeli government wont’ care, the American Goyim won’t agree with the Chareidim, some of the frei might get even angrier.do not be mevaze a Talmud Chocham.
ben18, that is blatant chutzpah. Watch your words.
Read the letter carefully. It does NOT say not to participate in the protest. What is says is that we should not make a protest. It still remains to be seen whether we should participate if others make them. If there is one, and it is a flop, that could be a chilul Hashem.
Also, with regards to conflicting reports (per #1), it appears that Reb Chaim originally was in favor of a protest, but was Mevatel Daas to Rav Steinman.
harav aaron schechter put out a leter last night saying everyone is mechuyiv to go
YWN: why don’t you print the letters of gedolim who said to participate in the protest????
They werent approved by the moderator?????
Moderators Response: YWN has published the only letter written by the leading Gedolei Hador. If you have any other letters by Rav Shteinman or Rav Kanievsky, please send them to YWN by using the contact form.
To No. 17 (Ben 18)
It is somewhat inappropriate to call Shteinman a hypocrite and unprincipled for basing his opposition to this Satmar demonstration on fear of losing money from the Israeli government. First of all, his mosdos in BB do not solicit big sums from the government but secondly, whatever you think of his torah views, no one to my knowledge has ever accused him of being “bought” by a few NIS when it comes to his views on daas torah. He is respected by many in EY as one of the more chashuve rabbonim of our generation.
After the last fiasco, it makes perfect sense for Gedolim to tell people not to go to the protest. They don’t want another Chillul Hashem from the handful of people acting like Beheimos.
Right now, we are losing the battle and the war, because some of our people can’t control themselves.
Boy O boy… this reminds me of the days in yeshiva when bachurim and kollel youngellite would lash out at me for asking “too many” questions during the shiur given by our rosh yeshiva. Many didn’t think it was respectful, but after asking the rosh yeshiva he told me earnestly that he wished more people would “fight” more in the learning. What am I getting at? Almost every issue (internet, tznious, TV, where to travel, what to wear, etc) opinionators here believe the word of the gedolim should be taken exactly. Suddenly with this particular issue, with these righteous gedolim, we stand here questioning their words and thoughts on the situation. Just announce it, you don’t agree with the gedolim….
Dear editor/moderator.
Chaim Berlin, in their weekly alumni email attached the request that all be at Foley Sq. today. As of this posting they have not sent a retraction. While Talmidim of Chaim Berlin have the utmost respect for the Gedolim signed on this letter, they also have the utmost respect for their own rosh yeshiva. Please try to keep the negative comments from both sides to a minimum as those who do attend, are doing so at the behest of their Rosh Yeshiva. Whatever his cheshbon is or is not, Talmidim of CB are not going to start playing the my gadol is bigger game. They will follow their Rosh Yeshiva as will talmidim of all other yeshivos.
Most of these degenerates are going to watch the women in the Puerto Rican Day parade. Maybe moshiach is almost here if both the sonei achim rebbes can sit on the same stage in order to make such a huge chilul Hashem the difference between Korach and his people and these guys is Korach was a Godol and was not looking for fame and fortune. Kudos to the Rabbonim for telling there people not to go to the chilul Hashem ralley.
When you’re talking about “Das tohra” of rav steinman keep in mind that he gave an official(!) heter for Nachal chariedy…, was that also “Das tohra” ???
Those who disbelieve in ever adhering to Rav Shteineman,are quick to piously express their approval for listening now.
Remarkable.
Protest Demonstrations have been enormously effective in the past.
The “gatekeepers”,perhaps, who seem to have Rav Shteineman’s ear
have own outlook and interests foremost.
Reminiscent of the “autopsies’ demonstrations”,which Moshe Sherer was opposed to,but behind his back it was arranged with the Gedolei Hador.
(A similar incident happened in the mid`70`s)
no.14
`It is ` appropriate to call you a `hypocrite and unprincipled,
for defending Rav Shteineman
( incapable as you are of referring to him with a title)
who has distorted and denigrated rabbonim without pause
Hopefully,someone will quote your words back to you,the next chance you find to attack erliche jews:
“It is somewhat inappropriate to call Shteinman a .. First of all, his mosdos in BB do not solicit big sums from the government but secondly, whatever you think of his torah views, no one to my knowledge has ever accused him of being “bought” by a few NIS when it comes to his views on daas torah.“
When one sees the Chillul Hashem used for it`s opposite,
and one has been seeing Kiddush .. used for some of the greatest travesties on earth,
one has to imagine the Aibeshter kvy“l starting to cry or worse
typo
When one sees the frightfully serious term
(#13) briskerchumra says:
June 9, 2013 at 7:05 am
YWN: why don’t you print the letters of gedolim who said to participate in the protest????
They werent approved by the moderator?????
Moderators Response: YWN has published the only letter written by the leading Gedolei Hador. If you have any other letters by Rav Shteinman or Rav Kanievsky, please send them to YWN by using the contact form.
With all due respect, who are you to decide who to consider as the “leading” gedolei hador. That is called absolute bias! Please explain why this isn’t considered bizuy talmidei chachomim as well?
Why is Reb Shmuel Kaminetzky Shlita more “leading” than R’ shmuel Aurbach or R’ elya Ber? If you are unbiased and just bringing from “leading” gedolei hador, Why isn’t the letter of Badat”z considered a daas tora from a “leading” figure???
Finally, Is a clear psak from r’ Aron Kotler considered enough as a daas of a “leading” gadol?
There’s no option on your “contact form” to “attach” these letters, and I’m sure you have access to them. Please be so kind and bring “both” shitos of ALL “leading” gedolei hador.
Moderators Note: Hagon HaRav Aaron Kotler died in 1969.
Why is the letter written by his sons, not by him?
Is he deliberately sending mixed messages?
Can’t he withstand the pressure he is getting?
A true Manhig like Satmar Rav, Harav Shach or others, always came out with a clear message for their adherents.
To YWN, if you boycott something that involves a big portion of Orthodox Jews in the US, just ignore it. It’s very degrading just to bring one side of the story. (Unless your biased, and something bothers you. Or perhaps YWN only has Litvishe readers, not Chasidishe, like it sounds from the comments. I would then suggest to you to change your name to Litvishe World News, because Chasiddim also have Yeshivos, and the Litvishe don’t have a monopoly on that).
If I mat add my 2 cents. As long as Reb Chaim is live and well and is currently answering in writing hundreds of shailos per week. A letter from his kids carries zero wheight! This is the opinion of many Roshie Yeshivos. If Reb Chaim wants to say something, he can pan it on his own!
To the YWN moderators: On a side note, without undermining that some people believe that Reb ALS is the Godol Hador, we here in America also have a godol Hador, and he did call for everyone to participate. this is the Skulener Rebbe. So be so kind and respect the world who do believe in him and his call. Thank you
This debate over the ranking of “gadolim” as if we were comparing them to tennis players or golfers using some quantitative scoring algorithm is over the top. While I’m clearly in the minority regarding what I believe is the hysteria and hyperbole being spread by some Chareidi rabbonim regarding the draft issue, I would not insult the intelligence of the readership by suggest that the Skulener Rebbe is remotely in the same class as acknowledged gadolim such as Reb Aron Leib Shteinman, Rav Kanievsky, etc.
“Moderators Note: Hagon HaRav Aaron Kotler died in 1969.”
Without getting technical, Hagon HaRav Aaron Kotler died in 1962.
Baruch Hashem the Sefaradi world is not part of this shtuyot. That is because we sepharadeem are all Zionist and follow the teachings of our Hachamim who are themselves Zionist. The question for sepharadimis whether to say hallel with or without a beracha on hag haasmaut. Only in America do sepharadim act like haredeem and curse the hand of Boreh Olam. The Ness of our holy state is totally ignored. It’s a total Hillel Hashem to openly attack the holy state of Israel.
YWN: I posted a comment stating why i think the letter is a forgery. why wasnt it approved?
Join the official YWN WhatsApp status
30 Responses
Didn’t Rav Elya Ber Wachtfogel write a letter that R’ Chaim’s son told him that his father said that they should make a protest.
So why the change of heart?
1) can we clear instructions from gedolim
2) is it true reb aron shecter is saying tehillim by the protest??
I do believe that every godal is entitled to have his own opinion
Looks like at that time he did not yet know what the Daas of Rav Steinman was.
But anyway I almost did not even know that there was suppose to be a protest….as YWN did not even make a mention of it. All of a sudden they were sure to mention ….. Not to go.
YWN Should at least ad their own signatures to the letters
Moderators Response: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=169763 (2 weeks ago)
everyone should look at the failure at the kosel and see that if we dont gather in huge numbers than the anti-frum will make great inroads into us… of course we have to follow are gedolim and since there is great differences here everyone should follow there gadol. but to only present one side is skewing the facts
everyone should look at the failure at the kosel and see that if we dont gather in huge numbers than the anti-frum will make great inroads into us… of course we have to follow are gedolim and since there is great differences here everyone should follow there gadol. but to only present one side is skewing the facts. rav yosef rosenblum and other litvushe have said to go
there was always Machlokes between the Chasdish Gedolim and Lutvish Gedolim..
why does Harav Shteiman say not to go?
cause he is “Pro-Israel” and afraid of loosing Government funding….
all the Chasidim can go together even both satmar!
5 Demonstrating in America is a different model entirely than standing up for rights in your own homeland.
Ben18, Rav Shteinemann said not to go because he khows that’s the wrong way to go — the Israeli government wont’ care, the American Goyim won’t agree with the Chareidim, some of the frei might get even angrier.do not be mevaze a Talmud Chocham.
ben18, that is blatant chutzpah. Watch your words.
Read the letter carefully. It does NOT say not to participate in the protest. What is says is that we should not make a protest. It still remains to be seen whether we should participate if others make them. If there is one, and it is a flop, that could be a chilul Hashem.
Also, with regards to conflicting reports (per #1), it appears that Reb Chaim originally was in favor of a protest, but was Mevatel Daas to Rav Steinman.
harav aaron schechter put out a leter last night saying everyone is mechuyiv to go
YWN: why don’t you print the letters of gedolim who said to participate in the protest????
They werent approved by the moderator?????
Moderators Response: YWN has published the only letter written by the leading Gedolei Hador. If you have any other letters by Rav Shteinman or Rav Kanievsky, please send them to YWN by using the contact form.
To No. 17 (Ben 18)
It is somewhat inappropriate to call Shteinman a hypocrite and unprincipled for basing his opposition to this Satmar demonstration on fear of losing money from the Israeli government. First of all, his mosdos in BB do not solicit big sums from the government but secondly, whatever you think of his torah views, no one to my knowledge has ever accused him of being “bought” by a few NIS when it comes to his views on daas torah. He is respected by many in EY as one of the more chashuve rabbonim of our generation.
After the last fiasco, it makes perfect sense for Gedolim to tell people not to go to the protest. They don’t want another Chillul Hashem from the handful of people acting like Beheimos.
Right now, we are losing the battle and the war, because some of our people can’t control themselves.
Boy O boy… this reminds me of the days in yeshiva when bachurim and kollel youngellite would lash out at me for asking “too many” questions during the shiur given by our rosh yeshiva. Many didn’t think it was respectful, but after asking the rosh yeshiva he told me earnestly that he wished more people would “fight” more in the learning. What am I getting at? Almost every issue (internet, tznious, TV, where to travel, what to wear, etc) opinionators here believe the word of the gedolim should be taken exactly. Suddenly with this particular issue, with these righteous gedolim, we stand here questioning their words and thoughts on the situation. Just announce it, you don’t agree with the gedolim….
Dear editor/moderator.
Chaim Berlin, in their weekly alumni email attached the request that all be at Foley Sq. today. As of this posting they have not sent a retraction. While Talmidim of Chaim Berlin have the utmost respect for the Gedolim signed on this letter, they also have the utmost respect for their own rosh yeshiva. Please try to keep the negative comments from both sides to a minimum as those who do attend, are doing so at the behest of their Rosh Yeshiva. Whatever his cheshbon is or is not, Talmidim of CB are not going to start playing the my gadol is bigger game. They will follow their Rosh Yeshiva as will talmidim of all other yeshivos.
Most of these degenerates are going to watch the women in the Puerto Rican Day parade. Maybe moshiach is almost here if both the sonei achim rebbes can sit on the same stage in order to make such a huge chilul Hashem the difference between Korach and his people and these guys is Korach was a Godol and was not looking for fame and fortune. Kudos to the Rabbonim for telling there people not to go to the chilul Hashem ralley.
When you’re talking about “Das tohra” of rav steinman keep in mind that he gave an official(!) heter for Nachal chariedy…, was that also “Das tohra” ???
Those who disbelieve in ever adhering to Rav Shteineman,are quick to piously express their approval for listening now.
Remarkable.
Protest Demonstrations have been enormously effective in the past.
The “gatekeepers”,perhaps, who seem to have Rav Shteineman’s ear
have own outlook and interests foremost.
Reminiscent of the “autopsies’ demonstrations”,which Moshe Sherer was opposed to,but behind his back it was arranged with the Gedolei Hador.
(A similar incident happened in the mid`70`s)
no.14
`It is ` appropriate to call you a `hypocrite and unprincipled,
for defending Rav Shteineman
( incapable as you are of referring to him with a title)
who has distorted and denigrated rabbonim without pause
Hopefully,someone will quote your words back to you,the next chance you find to attack erliche jews:
“It is somewhat inappropriate to call Shteinman a .. First of all, his mosdos in BB do not solicit big sums from the government but secondly, whatever you think of his torah views, no one to my knowledge has ever accused him of being “bought” by a few NIS when it comes to his views on daas torah.“
When one sees the Chillul Hashem used for it`s opposite,
and one has been seeing Kiddush .. used for some of the greatest travesties on earth,
one has to imagine the Aibeshter kvy“l starting to cry or worse
typo
When one sees the frightfully serious term
(#13) briskerchumra says:
June 9, 2013 at 7:05 am
YWN: why don’t you print the letters of gedolim who said to participate in the protest????
They werent approved by the moderator?????
Moderators Response: YWN has published the only letter written by the leading Gedolei Hador. If you have any other letters by Rav Shteinman or Rav Kanievsky, please send them to YWN by using the contact form.
With all due respect, who are you to decide who to consider as the “leading” gedolei hador. That is called absolute bias! Please explain why this isn’t considered bizuy talmidei chachomim as well?
Why is Reb Shmuel Kaminetzky Shlita more “leading” than R’ shmuel Aurbach or R’ elya Ber? If you are unbiased and just bringing from “leading” gedolei hador, Why isn’t the letter of Badat”z considered a daas tora from a “leading” figure???
Finally, Is a clear psak from r’ Aron Kotler considered enough as a daas of a “leading” gadol?
There’s no option on your “contact form” to “attach” these letters, and I’m sure you have access to them. Please be so kind and bring “both” shitos of ALL “leading” gedolei hador.
Moderators Note: Hagon HaRav Aaron Kotler died in 1969.
Why is the letter written by his sons, not by him?
Is he deliberately sending mixed messages?
Can’t he withstand the pressure he is getting?
A true Manhig like Satmar Rav, Harav Shach or others, always came out with a clear message for their adherents.
To YWN, if you boycott something that involves a big portion of Orthodox Jews in the US, just ignore it. It’s very degrading just to bring one side of the story. (Unless your biased, and something bothers you. Or perhaps YWN only has Litvishe readers, not Chasidishe, like it sounds from the comments. I would then suggest to you to change your name to Litvishe World News, because Chasiddim also have Yeshivos, and the Litvishe don’t have a monopoly on that).
If I mat add my 2 cents. As long as Reb Chaim is live and well and is currently answering in writing hundreds of shailos per week. A letter from his kids carries zero wheight! This is the opinion of many Roshie Yeshivos. If Reb Chaim wants to say something, he can pan it on his own!
To the YWN moderators: On a side note, without undermining that some people believe that Reb ALS is the Godol Hador, we here in America also have a godol Hador, and he did call for everyone to participate. this is the Skulener Rebbe. So be so kind and respect the world who do believe in him and his call. Thank you
This debate over the ranking of “gadolim” as if we were comparing them to tennis players or golfers using some quantitative scoring algorithm is over the top. While I’m clearly in the minority regarding what I believe is the hysteria and hyperbole being spread by some Chareidi rabbonim regarding the draft issue, I would not insult the intelligence of the readership by suggest that the Skulener Rebbe is remotely in the same class as acknowledged gadolim such as Reb Aron Leib Shteinman, Rav Kanievsky, etc.
“Moderators Note: Hagon HaRav Aaron Kotler died in 1969.”
Without getting technical, Hagon HaRav Aaron Kotler died in 1962.
Baruch Hashem the Sefaradi world is not part of this shtuyot. That is because we sepharadeem are all Zionist and follow the teachings of our Hachamim who are themselves Zionist. The question for sepharadimis whether to say hallel with or without a beracha on hag haasmaut. Only in America do sepharadim act like haredeem and curse the hand of Boreh Olam. The Ness of our holy state is totally ignored. It’s a total Hillel Hashem to openly attack the holy state of Israel.
YWN: I posted a comment stating why i think the letter is a forgery. why wasnt it approved?