A Yeshiva Bochur returning from his friends Chasunah was arrested for DWI, Tuesday night.
According to our sources, the boy was stopped by officers from the NYPD in the Flatbush area, after displaying signs of being intoxicated. The 19-year-old Bochur, who is a student at a prominent Yeshiva was taken into custody, and will now need to face the consequences of his irresponsible, and potentially deadly actions.
Thankfully, he did not hurt or kill anyone – including himself – while at the wheel.
YWN spoke with a leading Rov on Wednesday morning to hear his thoughts on this story.
“It’s time people dig their heads out of the sand, and deal with this issue head-on”, he said.
“This story should be a wake-up call for Klal Yisroel, and no I don’t mean to discuss it at an Agudah Convention. I mean to DEAL WITH THE ISSUE, and once and for all eradicate this plague of Yeshiva Bochrim drinking at weddings, vorts, shabbos meals etc.”
He added that “Klal Yisroel should give Shevah V’hodaah to the Robono Shel Olam that this Bochur ended up in police car, rather than in an emergency room or worse, Chas Veshalom”.
Click HERE to read a letter YWN has previously published on February 15, 2010 – written by a guest at a wedding in Brooklyn, where he describes what he witnessed.
(Dov Gordon – YWN)
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34 Responses
BRAVO!!!!!! But you all know: Nothing’s gonna come of it. How fast this one will be forgotten….AS the article states, dig EVERYONE’S head out of the sand. 19? an adult but still a kid! Hello?? PARENTS!! WHERE ARE YOU????
Thank you YWN for bringing up this issue! I commend your courage.
I firmly believe that frum parents and yeshivas need to start confronting this issue by formally and informally discussing the dangers of alcohol – both from a religious and a physical standpoint.
Unfortunately, many rabbehim actually encourage drinking (to the point of intoxication) at chasunas and tisches in order to ‘relate to the guys’ and seem ‘with it.’ what a big mistake…
It’s not just the bochurim. They get their cue from so called adults who use any occasion to drink and get drunk. I’ve been to a bunch of kiddushim recently and the amount of alcohol that flowed was ridiculous. Needless to say a few of the “men” went home in a drunken stupor. The kids (yes bochurim are kids) only try to emulate what they see the “adults” doing.
I think some shuls need to have AA meetings on site to deal with the alcoholism.
The truth must be told,:
A Yeshiva’diga Yeshiva will always prefer a Bochur from a ‘Toirediga Home’, even if he is the type to become High; rather than, a settled Bochur, who is not from such a ‘Toirediga Home’.
Time to totaly ban “ANY” type of alcohol from chasunahas
what #3 writes is true. i ahve been to many places as a regular kiddush goes that mostly observes rather than eats due to watching my weight. i dont drink any alcoholic beverages but i see the bottles empty out fast as a water bottle. mostly men (an occassional woman) empty those bottles and then sleep away their shabbos afternoons. this is the example set that their children see. think about it before you indulge.
Besides the fact is that everyone else who subsequently makes a kiddush tries to outdo everyone else, not only with the menu, but with even more expensive liquors. And some people who feel they must do this just don’t have the money. Time to not only ban liquor, but expensive kiddushim as well. Make kiddush to be yotzei and go home and eat. Make your wife happy for a change. . . . .
Why could you not write this piece without knocking the aguda covention?
B”H, he didn’t kill himself or anyone else. Had he hit anyone the Baalei simcha would have been held responsible, as well as the caterer and the hall. THEY would ALL have been liable for serving him alcohol. And because he was under age that makes it a “legal” issue as well. The hall would be at risk of losing its liquor license. And that would have a huge effect on their being able to stay in business. Now that is just the legal and financial aspect of this issue.
That is all in addition to being a chilul Hashem and a health issue, an addiction issue, breaking the law, and everything everyone said above. The three chasunahs I made, was a wine bar only at the smorg and wine on the table at the simcha. NO OPEN BAR, and that did NOT deter the level of simcha or how lebedich the chasuna was. And no one goes home remembering that the family did not have an open bar. No one went home drunk, no one spoiled the simcha with drunken nonsense and everyone had a great time.
“…eradicate this plague of Yeshiva Bochrim drinking at weddings, vorts, shabbos meals etc.”
they’re driving on shabbos now too? 🙂
The hall IS at risk for losing their license.
I do not think complete abstinence is an answer. It will only lead to more uncontrolled drinking or drinking not where it can be supervised. Instead we need to educate our children and ourselves as to the proper use and dangers of alcohol. Exactly what this Rav said “deal with it”. Banning alcohol just pushes it under the rug further.
Here are 2 alternatives to deal with this problem:
A. Ignore it and wait until a drunken Jew kills a gentile and thereby triggers a pogrom.
B. Ignore it and wait until a drunken Jew kills a rebbe or rosh yeshiva.
These are stupid ideas, you say? How are they different than the current approach?
And, incidentally, I think Plan A above will not solve the problem, because the pogrom will be an over-reaction, and every pandering politician and community organizer (yes, we have those in the frum community, though they are usually known by other names) will play an anti-semitism card, thereby defeating the meager value of Plan A.
“The hall would be at risk of losing its liquor license.”
They still might if he told the cops he came from a wedding and had a few drinks.
The cynical side of me is saying had he c’v hurt himself or others while DWI, we would see a headline about another unfortunate accident involving a yeshiva bachur, and the requisite calls for women to dress more tsniusdik.
Now we can see the situation for what it is. Someone (caterer? baal simcha? guests of simcha? friends of bachur? the bachur for sure) acted recklessly and was arrested for DWI.
If the prominent unnamed Rav would like to really drive home the point to those who have their heads in the sand, he would come out publicly and say what is attributed to him here.
In New York the age for drinking is 21. Additionally, alcohol is only a CRUTCH for those who don’t have true Simcha in order to bring it out. I’m not saying those who drink are lacking Simcha. Having one drink helps bring it out, especially for people who tend to be more reserved. It takes 3 drinks over the span of an hour for the average person to be legally drunk. This guy (and others I’ve observed) had too much.
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The fright here is that this incident aims to be like many others – at best a lesson for the individual, but quickly forgotten by everyone else. After all, there was no drama that affected anyone here, no death, no injury, and probably minimal consequence involving the court.
As a community, we are quite permissive regarding alcohol. Does anyone know why we serve liquor at weddings and other simchos? I don’t. I get the use of wine at the chuppah and benching, but that’s where it stops. One can say l’chaim on grape juice. Even the low alcohol wines pose minimal risk. What’s with the bars? So that we can imitate goyishe values and lifestyles?
The yeshivas & parents will respond with: NO ONE SHOULD BE DRIVING TILL AGE 21 rather than dealing with the issues at hand.
If this “bochur” was from a prominent yeshiva then the rebbeim are at fault for not teaching the bachurim how to drink with taam and love for each other and their yeshiva. This bachur obviously has emotional distress otherwise he would drink just enough to be mesameach chosson vkallah after that its an easy assumption that this BOY has a deeper issue. Dont be naive and assume a boy gets drunk to enjoy himself, there are alot of secrets hiding behind the regular yeshiva boy in yes prominent yeshivas!
I for one have ZERO tolerance for drunk drivers, regardless of their age, gender, race, or religion.
If it were up to me, the FIRST offense would get, AT LEAST, a six month suspended license (in addition to a heavy fine and community service), and a second offense would lose their license PERMANENTLY (in addition to a heavy fine AND some jail time!)
These light punishments are all assuming that no one had been injured or killed as a result of the drunk driving.
Driving intoxicated is even worse than running around drunk with a loaded gun.
NO excuses.
NO rachmanus.
You play, You PAY.
#17 Very fine line between light drinking and going overboard. So the assumption that there is emotional distress/problem is way out of line.
The extreme anti-drinking agenda that views the consumption of alcohol as evil only serves to polarize the issue and causes normal people to distance themselves from such assimilationist apologetics and sometimes unfortunately go to the other extreme.
Perhaps the great sages of the Talmud where also just trying to be “with it” when they gave the Talmidim drinks – and at times the Talmidim drank so much they became sick and would need remedies. These Talmidim by the way where the “top bochurim” at their Yeshiva and we all learn their Torah every day.
One of the virtues of wine is that it “gladdens the heart” This is one of the reasons it merits its own special bracha. The consumption of wine is mandated for Kidush, the 4 Cups on Pesach, and Purim and certainly proper at Simchas and Suddas Mitzvah.
This being said there are strict halachos as well as musser pertaining to the consumption of wine. A Kohen cannot drink before performing Avodah – including Berchas Kohanim. A Rav cannot paskin shailos after drinking. And of-course one cannot get behind the wheel of a car. Likewise those who pursue alcohol excessively remove themselves from the world.
We are expected to use knives and fire for constructive purposes in a responsible manner ensuring that we don’t hurt ourselves or others. Alcohol is no different.
Of course each Rav and Rosh HaYeshiva will make policy for their yeshiva and shul taking into consideration among other things whether their bachurim or baal habatim are in a position to set proper limits and if not if perhaps a more stringent approach to alcohol consumption is in order for that time and place.
#17: Don’t project your personal hangups on someone you don’t even know.
just a thought. Maybe we should look at whats the root of all this drinking in our community,and try to work on it. In my opinion i think there are people out there myself included who just don’t feel happy or fulfilled enough and therefore its exciting or more tempting to hit the drinks when an chance arises. I think we all gotta find what those things are in our life to fix them and then the ”excessive” drinking will slow down or even stop.
Just because he came home drunk from a wedding does not mean that the hall served it to him. We all know that bochurim bring their own, or grab the liquor from the Chason’s tish. On the other hand EVERYONE is responsible if they allow anyone underage to drink and then especially drive.
#8- No one’s knocking the Agudah convention. He’s saying that just discussing it there isn’t enough.
#24 – yes, he is saying that all they do is discuss things there, so that it is not a venue for ‘getting things done’.
Whether that is true or not, the statement is LH and didn’t need to be here.
The solution is davening to hashem and parenting. Stop blaming alcoholism,wedding halls,police,hospital,Aguda,blogs,roshei yeshivos and anything else on the 2011 blame list.
Where is the parenting?
0.4 is a schnapps cup and that’s all it will take for someone to be arrested and charged for DWI.
my son got hooked on marijuana and left yiddishkeit while in yeshiva all the organizations that claim to get involved would surely do it for thousands of dollars. what we need is a type of shomrim with drug counselors who could immed intervene meet w those bochurim and get them the help they need get them to therapy for substance and alch abuse and let the klall have funding for this and ev family will give as much as they can otherwise we are losing our kids its not their fault its the hashpaa of outside world seeping in and kidnapping our children. By the time parents are finished running to all the therapists its too late they need immed intervention like hazala this problem is huge and it only took a few sweet ehrlicha bochurim to go out for a smoke another one says here try this and keep trying til you get a high there arent always huge long histories of dysfunctional families when this happens
The amount of alcohol needed to make driving dangerous is much less than the amount needed to be visibly drunk. Driving a car or motorcycle even at urban speeds is a high speed precision activity requiring our fastest reflexes. When we go even 20 miles per hour, we are going far faster than we traveled throughout most of human history.
The next Agudah convention is in 11+ months. In the meanwhile we can not let our children suffer the fate of the עזאזל goat.
THIS STORY NEVER HAPPENED! Well, at least from this article there is no indication it ever did! For someone under 21 to be considered DWI all he needs is a BAC level of 0.1. What that means is that he could’ve had a quarter of a shot and still been arrested. The fact that supposedly he was pulled over bec he looked like he was drunk doesn’t mean much, he’s only 19 and is prob not an inexperianced driver and wasn’t driving so expertly. Untill a BAC level is reported there is no reason to think this story happened as reported! After all, i’ve been in many yeshivos and still haven’t met one yeshiva guy that would drink and drive. For that matter, i haven’t heard of anyone who would either!
#27 – I know for a fact that it happened – and get this: YWN was very kind, because not only was this bochur drunk, he CRASHED HIS CAR AND TOTALED ANOTHER VEHICLE.
Here is more, YWN knows this info as well.
Your a fool and a tipush.
It doesn’t matter if this was his first or 31st drunken spree. I hope he loses his license for a very long time. I also hope he is forced to go to AA, get substance abuse counseling & visit the morgue.
Has anyone here done a Tahara on road accident victims? I have. It’s nothing I ever want to see ever again. This moron could have been responsible for another victim. He was lucky. Not everyone who drives drunk is.
“Just because he came home drunk from a wedding does not mean that the hall served it to him.”
While that might be true, all he has to claim is that they did. Its a better cover story for him than, I came to the wedding with a flask of bourbon in my jacket, bourbon that I stole from my parents, a store, or purchased with my fake ID. It is a better story than I got the alcohol from several of my underaged friends who stole it or purchased it with their fake IDs. At the end of the day, this guy and his parents will have to deal with the consequences of his actions. Hopefully, he will be held up as an example of what not to do.
i don’t know why u all talk about him being completely drunk and intoxicated. doesn’t anyone realise that to be stopped for DWI all one needs to drink is 3-4 units, which is a small amount if it’s a strong drink. Who said this bochur was under the influence of his drink. why all the fingerpointing? yes he shouldn’t drive even after the smallest amount of alcohol but why is everyone making as if ALL bochurim drink, get intoxicated, act crazy and end up in bed. why can’t we be don lechaf zechus?
perhaps this boy was driving home from the wedding in the early hours of the morning, exhausted after a long day. that would be a reason not to be able to concentrate as well on your driving. anyway police love stopping young guys driving late at night even if they are doing nothing wrong. they love the free entertainment. this bochur probably was stopped for this reason and they probably check the alcohol level as is their general procedure.
horrified you are a very naive person. The issue here is not this boy but the problem in general. Why do boys feel they have to bring bottles of booze to weddings (this I’ve seen with my own eyes). Noone is saying all bochurim get intoxicated but the percentage is dangerously high.
Even if you want to say he wasn’t drunk but was tired, he shouldn’t be behind the wheel as well. What would happen if he fell asleep behind thwe wheel? Just as bad as driving drunk.