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YWN Coffee Room » Bais Medrash » Minhagim

Peyos

(47 posts)
  • Started 2 years ago by cantgetit
  • Latest reply from blackhatwannabe

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  1. cantgetit
    Joseph

    What part of the peyos must remain uncut?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  2. real-brisker
    Now that's Brisk, Baby!

    What do you mean by uncut?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  3. mommamia22
    Member

    I've wondered about that myself, what part you can trim (let's say during a buzz). Doesn't it go by minhag, where some people grow it out and put it behind their ear? I learned that the bottom part of the peya has to reach the bottom of the inner opening of the ear. My kids barber said with a buzz cut, anything "3" or above is ok; a "2" is not. He's not a rav, though. I'm wondering what you all know.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  4. yitayningwut
    I have no idea wut this screen name means. Do YOU know what this screen name means?

    See Shulchan Aruch Yoreh Deah 181. It's not very complicated.

    mommamia22 -

    There are two opinions about what kind of removing peyos is forbidden. Either only a razor is assur or even a scissors which cuts close like a razor is assur (such as a kosher shaver). We are machmir like the second pshat. Anything which is not similar to a razor-cut is fine. Therefore I believe that a 2 is certainly fine, and even a 1. The only thing I would say is problematic is the clipper without an attachment, and even that might vary based on what it looks like after it's done.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  5. DyafMaven
    Member

    The min shir I have heard from my rav is at the bone. There is a bone right by your ear canal the peyios have go a little beyond that. Also a 3 or 2 is the thickness of the hair by the payios I agree they should be a 3 maybe even a 4, but I have never asked my rav how tick they should be by the bone, but he did tell me that is the point where they must grow.

    In flatbush their are a few barber shops that have a sign explaining the halachos of peyios that you can look that if you do not have a local orthodox rabbi to ask this question to.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  6. cantgetit
    Joseph

    Which area is considered part of the peyos?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  7. yitayningwut
    I have no idea wut this screen name means. Do YOU know what this screen name means?

    The shiur of the bone is where the peyos stop on the bottom. You can feel it next to the middle of your ear where the skull overlaps the jaw (ok there are fancier words but I don't know them). Under that you do not need to worry about the rules of peyos. This is all in the Shulchan Aruch there.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  8. cantgetit
    Joseph

    And which area above (or side of) the ear, is considered part of the peyos?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  9. yitayningwut
    I have no idea wut this screen name means. Do YOU know what this screen name means?

    It's unclear in the Shulchan Aruch there. He says it starts at the forehead, meaning the hair that juts out from on top of the peyos onto the forehead. My personal opinion is that you draw a slant from there until the front of the top of your ear, and everything lower than that until the bone is your peyos.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  10. Jothar
    F.M.C.R.S. and occasional creator of chaos.

    There is a poster available.
    The 18″x24″ laminated poster is available for free if it will be on permanent public display in a yeshiva, shul, or barber shop. All others can have a free pdf file of the poster emailed to them, and can print the poster on their home printer or bring it to their local copy center.

    Call 877-Payos-26 (877.729.6726) for simple directions on how to get a copy of the poster or for additional information, including a frequently asked questions section regarding the poster.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  11. real-brisker
    Now that's Brisk, Baby!

    Click on DaasYochids name, you will see the poster Jothar is talking about.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  12. yitayningwut
    I have no idea wut this screen name means. Do YOU know what this screen name means?

    Does that mean the poster only represents a daas yachid?

    Ok, take this to the worst jokes of all time thread...

    Posted 2 years ago #
  13. koillel101
    tuna baigel

    I think it depends on who you ask. Some sects are more machmir.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  14. emlf
    Energy & Mineral Law Foundation

    Here is the link for the poster: http://www.hakhel.info/archivesPublicService/PeyosPoster.pdf

    Posted 2 years ago #
  15. DaasYochid
    a singular mind

    To make it easier, I'll post on this thread. And in case the link in my sn is removed, here it is: http://kosherhaircut.com/.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  16. real-brisker
    Now that's Brisk, Baby!

    DY - Why would it get removed, and not the one that you posted?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  17. hello99
    Member

    According to many Poskim, if one cuts the hairs in the location of Payos too short to fold over each hair in half, he has transgressed the Issur of removing the Payos. This includes Rabbi Akiva Eiger, Chasm Sofer and Ksav Sofer, and is based on the Sugya in Nazir. Rav Dovid Feinstein is Machmir that this may be ¼ inch (6 mm), which I believe is equivalent to a #2 haircut. Therefore, one should certainly not use less than a #3 on that part of the head.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  18. Menora
    Member

    hello,

    What location is the "location of payos" (above, side, and below)?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  19. DaasYochid
    a singular mind

    r-b,

    Why would it get removed

    I might decide to change it. Or, a moderator might, but still leave the post. It's hard to understand why certain links are allowed and others not, because different moderators are on duty at different times.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  20. DaasYochid
    a singular mind

    Hello99,

    This response from someone involved in the production of the poster:

    5mm, which is .2”, is sufficient length according to all poskim as brought in Sefer Lshichno Sidrshu by R’ Koledzky (R’ Chaim Kanievsky’s son in law). As well, R” Dovid Feinstein’s haskoma appears on the payos poster which also says the same thing. A #2 guard cuts at 6mm = .25” so that is safe to use (unless the barber manually lowers the guard further which they can sometime do on certain machines), a #1 guard obviously cuts below the 5mm amount.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  21. Toi
    beware the cleats

    i think the op meant peyas harosh. in which case, its a machlokes rishonim exactly where the peyous are. the halachah of the is length, not never touching them. go look at rishonim there cuz its too complicate to write.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  22. Menora
    Member

    What Is the mekor to have long peyos going down the side of your head (like Chasidim, Teimenim and some others have)?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  23. popa_bar_abba
    Incorrigible; eccentric; somewhere between mean and average; sometimes only a bit over the top; arbitrarily engaged in cynicism.

    So, why do even litvaks grow their kids' hair down to the cheekbone? If the kids don't have sideburns, what is the reason to let hair hang down over it from higher on their head?

    Does this make any sense?

    (And don't tell me chinuch, since it is not doing the mitzva. The mitzva is to have the hairs that grow there not cut too short, not to have other hair hanging there. It is no different than coloring it on with a marker.)

    Posted 2 years ago #
  24. DaasYochid
    a singular mind

    Brachos 11a:
    משל לאחד שאומרים לו זקנך מגודל אמר להם יהיה כנגד המשחיתים

    Posted 2 years ago #
  25. DaasYochid
    a singular mind

    Although not according to Rashi's pshat. See Aruch and Tos. Harosh.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  26. hello99
    Member

    DY: שו"ת ודברת בם סוף סי' רכ"ד quotes Rav Dovid Feinstein that one should be Machmir .25"

    Posted 2 years ago #
  27. DaasYochid
    a singular mind

    Yet, his haskama is on the poster (and I know it's legit). I don't have access to שו"ת ודברת בם to check.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  28. yitayningwut
    I have no idea wut this screen name means. Do YOU know what this screen name means?

    Popa -

    I would guess it comes from the Ari mentioned in the Beis Lechem Yehuda here:

    http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=9146&st=&pgnum=250&hilite=

    Posted 2 years ago #
  29. popa_bar_abba
    Incorrigible; eccentric; somewhere between mean and average; sometimes only a bit over the top; arbitrarily engaged in cynicism.

    yitay:
    Yes, that I was aware of. And that is presumably what is behind the "brisker" peyos.
    I'm asking more according to litvaks who don't have peyos at all, and only do the ikkar hadin of not trimming the sideburns too close. Why do they grow their kids hair down to the cheekbone?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  30. yitayningwut
    I have no idea wut this screen name means. Do YOU know what this screen name means?

    Fregt gut.

    Maybe it has something to do with getting into yeshivishe schools.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  31. popa_bar_abba
    Incorrigible; eccentric; somewhere between mean and average; sometimes only a bit over the top; arbitrarily engaged in cynicism.

    I donno.

    When I was in kindergarten, we had a kid in the class from a non-frum family. One day, he came in with his "peyos" cut off. And the teachers were upset about it. And I don't get it. (the teachers were a bit ignorant, in other regards also.)

    Posted 2 years ago #
  32. yitayningwut
    I have no idea wut this screen name means. Do YOU know what this screen name means?

    They were probably more upset by the fact that the kid had them cut off than had he simply never had them.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  33. ItcheSrulik
    Formerly college sheigetz. Now ger.

    popa: I think it's cultural, not halachic. Today a lot of litvish/yeshivish Jews want to be more visibly "frum" like the chassidim so they give their kids peyos, just not full length. Though that's changing too and I see more yeshivish children with longer peyos as well.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  34. popa_bar_abba
    Incorrigible; eccentric; somewhere between mean and average; sometimes only a bit over the top; arbitrarily engaged in cynicism.

    Itche: I think we're talking about different things.

    You're talking about having peyos which you stick behind your ear. That is based on the Ari that yitayningwut linked. That is an idea that you should allow all the hair in the peyos zone to down to the cheekbone.

    I'm talking about something that you probably also did. That is, that as a kid, before you had sideburns, you still had hair hanging down in front of your ear up to the cheekbone, and you would tell your barber to not cut it off. I have never seen any marginally frum kid without that. And I am trying to figure out why.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  35. ItcheSrulik
    Formerly college sheigetz. Now ger.

    popa: Yeah, now I get you. Though I actually did have peyos behind my ears until I grew sideburns.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  36. DaasYochid
    a singular mind

    Unfortunately, the website for the kosher haircut poster is down. Someone is working on it, but meanwhile, the poster can be obtained here:

    http://freepdfhosting.com/3ade97db11.pdf

    Moderator, kindly allow the link. Thanks.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  37. OneOfMany
    Today, the Impressively Arbitrary Nymphadora the Purple is sporting One Of her Many eyebrow colors, as well as her Morgul-blade ^_^

    Welcome back, DY! Here to stay?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  38. DaasYochid
    a singular mind

    The site is B"H back up.

    http://kosherhaircut.com/

    OneOfMany,

    Thanks. I still read the CR once in a while, but posting became very time consuming, so I've refrained.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  39. So why do people have peyos behind their ears-is this just a style or Halacha?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  40. SaysMe
    O pen, says me

    site's not working yet actually

    Posted 2 years ago #
  41. avhaben
    Joseph

    blackhat: Cause they're embarassed to leave it in front of their ear.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  42. DaasYochid
    a singular mind

    It works for me.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  43. Interesting-nothing Halachik-just cause they dont want to stand out amongst the goyim with hair in front of their ears instead of behind what is the length of the peyos behind the ear-is it up to the cheek-bone?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  44. SaysMe
    O pen, says me

    um, i'm not sure the reason, but i dont think thats it. From the people i know with peyos behind the ear, its until about the bottom of the ear, where its attached to the head, not the lobe. and from that length and on. One of my relatives doesnt cut his peyos but is not chassidish to curl them, and doesnt either tuck them under his kippa, but wraps them around his ears. Just saw him recently- must be 10 inches long

    Posted 2 years ago #
  45. Many people keep their sideburns down to the bottom of the ear lobe which seems like the more machmir shitah-would this be the same length as if he grew his peyos behind his ear?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  46. yitayningwut
    I have no idea wut this screen name means. Do YOU know what this screen name means?

    They hold like Elvis.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  47. HA HA...true, but what is the real answer to my question?

    Posted 2 years ago #

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