The latest victim of religious discrimination in the IDF is a Chabad soldier serving in the north. The soldier was instructed to remove his wool tzitzis during sports activities for fear he would overheat and possibly dehydrate. His commander told him during sport activities he may not wear three layers (undershirt, tzitzis and top shirt).
The soldier explained that he cannot remove the tzitzis for he is stringent in observing this mitzvah in line with Chabad minhag, to always wear wool tzitzis. The company commander became insistent and the soldier explained that this is his belief and he is unwilling to compromise. When things became more heated the soldier explained he will gladly sit in jail over this for it is a matter of principle.
The company commander took the matter to his superior officer and the Chabad soldier was sent to the IDF Nafach Prison for 10 days.
When asked to comment on the incident the IDF Spokesman explains the soldier was not jailed for the tzitzis but for insubordination pertaining to his remarks to officers. The statement says the soldier refused the company commander’s request and then he was taken to the brigade commander. He told the senior officer that for him “there only law is Torah Law, which trumps IDF law. He was jailed for his insubordination without connection to the tzitzis.”
However, after probing the matter with family members they insist they spoke with soldiers who were present and the IDF spokesman is simply trying to sweep the incident under the rug but in reality, the soldier was jailed for his tzitzis, simple as that. A brother explains that the soldier politely told the officers that he too can apply pressure using his connections outside towards standing on his right to wear wool tzitzis and other religious items as he should.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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35 Responses
if there is a real concern of sakanas nafashos then that trumps tzitzis
If anyone has still missed seeing the State of Israel and the IDF’s War Against Judaism, open your eyes. No longer willfully blind yourself. Remove the curtains.
We must defend ourselves in this war being waged against us Torah Jews. Defending ourselves starts by not selling out to the enemy and joining their rouge forces and military.
That’s defensive. Then we must wage an offensive, as the best defense is a good offense. And when the enemies of the Torah in medina hold no bars, we must use all our resources in fighting this shmad.
A brother explains that the soldier politely told the officers that he too can apply pressure using his connections outside towards standing on his right to wear wool tzitzis and other religious items as he should.
wow who knew that the brother was there
This happens in the so called Jewish state
First a few weeks ago the idf barber shaved a chariedi soldier in the military his beard and payios now it is followed with the commander instructing another chariedi soldier to remove his wool tzitzis when he refused the Chabad soldier was sent to the IDF Nafach Prison for 10 days.
Now I am waiting for everyone to start jumping on the IDF. As a former combat soldier, I ma morre qualified to speak about this issue than most commenters. But the truth is that it is a Pikuach Nefesh issue. When you are doing certain intense exercise and activities you are not allowed to have anything on under your shirt. No undershirt, no tzitzis. I have personally seen guys dehydrate and get heat stroke which is much more life threatening than most people think. When you are in the hot sun and you are wearing your vest you have no idea how hot it can get. Interestingly enough, you also can’t wear anything under in the winter too, during intense exercises. Because then it gets soaked in sweat and then when you slow down you can get hypothermia.
#5 He probably also has to remove his kipa for that and his beard and peyot or else he can G’F dehydrate. Obvsiously the IDF is meant for tzitzitless chilonim.
I guess in another 37 days, this same general will order all soldiers under his command, to drink water on Yom Kippur for this 1 & same fear of dehydration.
#5.. Thanks for your comments.
Unfortunately, the Zionist haters will jump at any straw to attack because the existence state flies smack in the face of their shita. Assuming for a second that this was a commander’s anti-Chareidi order, it’s one of isolated cases, since there are many religious soldiers who have no problem whatsoever.
The enemies of the state however, will continue to malign, distort lie, and create a chillul Hashem if necessary in order to wipe away the great contradiction in their haskofa.
Namely : How could Hashem create, nurture and protect this Jewish state when they learned otherwise? That’s why their hysteria is at a high feverish pitch and will continue to do so.
Commenter No. 2 writes in his/her second paragraph, in part: “Defending ourselves starts by not selling out to the enemy and joining their rouge forces and military.”
I totally agree that no member of the IDF, frum or otherwise, should be required to wear rouge or any other women’s make-up. I am frankly surprised that the IDF even has a rouge force. Soldiers wearing rouge should not be singled out for special treatment or separate regiments.
In the United States, they had a problem similar to Israel 60 years ago. Many white officers, especially from the southern states, who were excellent officers from a military perspective, couldn’t deal with having black soldiers. The American military made it clear that bigotry was unacceptable, and such persons were forced out of the military. Many Israeli officers are hiloni members of the “elite” who were brought up to believe that hareidim are socially and morally defective “throw backs” whose culture is to be surpressed. If these people can’t learn to work with hareidim, then the army will have to fire them, no matter how good they are as soldiers. But that hasn’t happened, and it is clear that the leadership of Israel still believes that the goal of zionism, to be reflected in the army, is to create a society where Jews can live “free” of Torah and Mitsvos.
When the follow-up to the article is about the commanding officer being dismissed for anti-hareidi bigotry, let us know.
Couldn’t he have worn the tzitzis alone, without a shirt on top? In any case, be was certainly jailed for wearing the tzitzis; the “insubordination” was his refusal to take them off.
They have a rule that, for fear of dehydration, no wool garments are allowed during this activity. What if it was an underwater activity rather than one where there was legitimate concern about dehydration?
Were other soldiers allowed to wear three layers, including one of wool, as long as the wool layer was something other than tzitzis?
So what happens when there is actual combat in Gaza with 100• weather and soldiers wear helmets, bullet proof vests and 50-60lbs of gear including guns and ammo. Do they all drop from heat exhaustion? Shouldn’t they train in similar hot conditions so they’ll be used to that? So why not the Tzitis
Sounds like a chassid shoteh – trying to be “frum” at the cost of sakanas nefashose. Even Chabad agrees that tzitzit need not be worn 24/7. They don’t wear tzitzit while showering or going to the mikvah.
You can’t run an army with each person deciding for themselves whether or not they risk dehydrating or getting heat stroke because of overheating. Left to their own choices, people will die. This isn’t summer camp games, it’s military training. This soldier sounds to me more like a person looking for trouble than a person who is fighting milchemes hashem.
And to comment #7: “I guess in another 37 days, this same general will order all soldiers under his command, to drink water on Yom Kippur for this 1 & same fear of dehydration.” No you idiot, these training drills will not happen then because it is YK and his soldiers are fasting. But yes, of course, if there is a risk of dehydration then leis man dpalig that one should break his fast.
#8 and many other posters hold that Daati Leumi have a different shita from Charedim in many halachot.
If so, those who have DL’s shita that the IDF protects the land should join this army and those who have the shita from Charedi Gedolei Yisrael who hold that learning Torah protects the land and one may not join this army whether they learn Torah or not, should not join.
#5- Thank you for telling it like it IS. I have long been writing about the fact that not one of the dozens of my family members who served in the IDF were EVER forced to do anything against halacha.
#8- You keep writing the truth as well, please. Lo sogur mi’pinayhem!
#14- Well said, but reasoning doesn’t work with these haters around here.
And, yes, I will continue to ask when in the world Akuperma has time to learn any of the Torah he preaches about, when he is breathlessly waiting at his pc for the first opportunity to spread lies about what goes on in the IDF (amongst other things).
the article clearly writes that ” The soldier was instructed to remove his wool tzitzis during SPORTS ACTIVITIES”
how much of pikuach nefesh is there in playing sports (i.e., is it really a mandatory activity)?
#13 There’s quite a big difference between tzitzit and high boots, helmets, bullet proof vests. Religious articles burns the commander too, he can become overheated and explode from high blood pressure.
#14 He’s indeed a chasid shoteh for joining an army that Gedolei Yisrael have said not to. Hope other charedim will finally believe that this is clearly an army for shmad.
Let’s not forget the chillul Shabbat and other anti-Torah things going on there because the commanding officer “claimed” pikuach nefesh and whatnot.
Lapid reluctantly accepted the rule that religious soldiers may walk out when female soldiers sing, but he’s adamant about female soldiers entering Nachal Charedi.
55 thats because your relatives ar enot chareidi they are tzioni who are not a threat to zionists and the idf therefore the army doesnt care what they do their sdinah is to chareidim dl’s are not charedim they are on the same team as the idf where zionism comes before torah only to those that torah comes firt are they directed against
#17 Can it not be that Akuperma is a woman? Or that several people in Akuperma’s office/home are posting under this name? Or whatever reason? How about being daan lekaf zchut charedim and not only reshaim?
#18 You’re too logical for many posters on here who are digging under the earth to give the reshaim the benefit of the doubt.
Does halacha require wearing tzizit during sports activities? In a Brooklyn gym many guys take them off.
Chasid shoteh. The rule isn’t about tzizis. The rule is one of health. Why do we assume that EVERYTHING a charedi Jew does is right, and everything an army officer demands is anti-religious. Cry wolf too many times and when the wolf is REALLY there — and it will be — no one will listen.
You dont have to worry about training on yom kippur or for that matter any taanis tzibur. my son who did Hesder told me that the army does not train on shabbos, yom tov or any taanis tzibur
ibj… Please already with Tzioni…You’re obsessed like the others .. Please read my post above as to why.
Having said that, I fear that they are not only obsessed but PO-sessed….And that’s scary.
Cynic2 – chasid shote does not apply to Halacha, it applies to Midat chasidut , hence the name “chasid” shote.
Actually chabadniks are well known for their good manners even under pressure so it is doubtful that he was rude.
And again we heard all sorts of things on how the IDF commanders are eager to understand the needs of chareidim. So either this officer didn’t study his audience or wasn’t all to eager. You decide.
People don’t get sick from wearing tzitzis. This is unheard of. And what about the cotton tzitzis, is that also going to lead to dehydration? Or only the difference between wool and cotton?
to #5
it is the State of Israel that creates the pikuach nefesh situation – if someone sets someone elses’ house on fire, and then wakes up the inhabitants, is he a hero or a villain? If not for zionism, the house would not be on fire to begin with. Before Herzl, Jews lived in peace with their neighbors
So when our small and narrowminded breathren in america think that its a great solution for weak learning frum boys or if we have a duty to serve our country; with actions like this one or the one where the soldier got military prison because he walked out of a ceremony when a woman sang then you’ll undersand why us living in this country and knowing the mind of this govt a bit better than you know and understand that they don’t merely need our help in the army they just want us all to assimilate and join the rest of the military that have given in and sometimes given up as a result of joining the army.
“…..it is the State of Israel that creates the pikuach nefesh situation – ”
Right..! Between 1939–1944 6 million Jews were murdered and the Zionist state creates pikuach nefesh. Between WWI and WWII literally thousands of pogroms took place in Russia, Poland and Romania, and the Zionist state creates pikuach nefesh.
Thanks much,Honorable Yanky55.
Geula… Not for nothing, but you DO need to take a breath once in a while so that we can understand what you’re saying.The only one thing I got is something about weak learning frum boys.
Whatever….
#5..Will you read a book or two once in your life so you can speak with a modicum of intelligence, instead of parroting lies?
Do you even begin to understand the misery Jews endured especially in the last 150 year in Europe before the state gave them a haven?
The few Jews who DID live in Eretz Yisrael also suffered from their Arab neighbors long, long before Herzl.
Will this dementia ever stop?
Kolemes**** You opened my eyes to something. I noticed that the anti-Zionists, who basically despise all goyim and are convinced that they’re unclean and tomah, suddenly come to their defense where Israel is concerned. They worry about the poor Arabs who lost their land, they deny that Jews were murdered by goyim but blame Zionist for it. Do you people actually believe what you’re saying or are these programmed responses because some charismatic leader in Williamsburgh , Brooklyn once taught this to you?
coffee addict this happened during “sports activities”. Also you have no reason to assume this guy is an idiot. I’m sure if you felt his life was in danger he would do what you had to do to protect himself.
My apologies #5….. I meant #27, kolemes.Sorry.
tzvitzvi:
See the Bavli (Sotah 21b) and Yerushalmi (Sotah 16a) discussing chasid shoteh, and see how similar they are to this case. Also, removing a four cornered garment with tzizis is not a VIOLATION of Halacha (removing the tzizis while continuing to to wear the garment would have been). And of course people don’t get sick from wearing tzizis. They get sick for overheating while involved in heavy physical exertion of the body can’t release the heat, for which the army has protective measures. WHY does EVERYTHING have to be viewed as as an attack on us?