WHEREAS, the American government is convening a conference later this week in Annapolis, Maryland in an effort to promote Middle East peace, and particularly to move Israel and the Palestinian Authority toward a final peace agreement; and
WHEREAS, the American government is reportedly urging the parties to proceed to the “final status issues” that remain to be negotiated, including sovereignty over the holy city of Jerusalem; and
WHEREAS, the delegates to the 85th national convention of Agudath Israel of America, following the direction of Agudath Israel’s rabbinic leadership, and for reasons relating to considerations of security as well as the singular place Jerusalem has always occupied in Jewish religious and communal life, are deeply pained and concerned about the prospect of Israel relinquishing parts of Jerusalem to Palestinian sovereignty.
NOW, THEREFORE, the delegates to the 85th national convention of Agudath Israel of America hereby resolve that Agudath Israel of America, under the direction of its rabbinic leadership, should communicate to appropriate government officials the organization’s strong belief that, for the reasons set forth above, Israel should not relinquish parts of Jerusalem to Palestinian sovereignty, and the American government should not pressure the Israeli government into doing so.
(November 25, 2007 – Stamford, CT)
Join the official YWN WhatsApp status
31 Responses
That is why I am not on the Moetzes. I can’t understand that resolution for beans.
Whats not to understand?
Gevaldig! Just what the Agudas Yisroel was created for. A Resolution!
Can someone explain what Mitzvah are we talking about. If they decide to return part of the Old City will it affect any of our Mitzvos or Chyuvim?
Is this a Golus issue, Political issue, or a Zoinist issue? What sovereignty is it under today?
I am confused
yay! yay! this will make a really big difference. i can already imagine president bush telling his advisers that “the agudah” doesn’t agree with this, so let us change the outcome.
its a bunch of fell-good honeybaloo.
S’vet helfen vee a tiyten bankess
Why are they too embarassed to quote from Torah that Eretz Yisroel belongs to the Jews? This shame weakens our arguments and strengthens the Palestinians view. We should proudly flaunt the quotes from Tanach at the UN and goyim. It makes a greater impression on them than anything else. Of course the AY thinks that it’s arrogance etc. but a bit of pride for Yerushalayims sake would go a long way.
Sigh, yawn …
Rabosay! Where is your amunas chachomim? The Novominsker Rebbe made a special trip to E”Y to speak with Maran Harav Elyashiv and Maran Harav Shteinman. He just said what these Godolai Hador told him. How can we critique what he said when he was just saying over dass torah from the godolai hador.
To all the naysayers:
1. To lawman613: if you don’t understand why Yerushalayim is important to Am Yisroel, explanations won’t help you.
2. To all the doubters: Whereas (to quote the Gedoilim) it might be true that the effect will be minimal, that doesn’t excuse anyone from saying or doing whatever they can to help the situation.
Besoiros toivos!
heylawman613 Ever do any contracts and wills that gave heirs an inheritance? Have you meet with heirs that relinqush the inheritance whether it is physical or spiritual.
There is an inyan, called ‘Kiddush Hashem’, when we raise kavod shem shamayim in the eyes of Jews and nonJews we raise this banner, in contrast when lowering the honor of hashem in the eyes of the world, (like telling the world his sacred city is full of straw) we act in a “chilul hashem”, this might help your understanding.
What they should have done is quote the first RASHI on the Torah HaKedoshah [Breishis 1:1]:
The Ribono Shel Olam — who created and, therefore, owns the World — gave all of Eretz Yisrael to us, the descendants of Avraham, Yitchak, and Yaakov.
All other claims to the Holy Land are null and void.
“Can someone explain what Mitzvah are we talking about. If they decide to return part of the Old City will it affect any of our Mitzvos or Chyuvim?…..”
I am confused
Comment by lawman613 RETURN?? What in heavens name are you talking about? Return to who? Yes it seems you are indeed very confused.
Thank you Agudah, for putting Yerushayalim on your agenda where it belongs since it is the eye of the universe and the kodesh of our kedoshim.
The resolution was as expected, we are strangers in a strange land (USA) and do not want to diminish our power, prestige, comforts and FUNDINGS that come our way. The resolution is for constituents of Agudath Yisroel, so that they now know what to think and do, regarding this so-called political issue.
it saddens me how many of you are so ignorant about one of the most important and central issues about being a Jew – eretz yisroel and the obligation never to relinquish it to nonjewish rule
(check through Hilchos Melachim and Eim HaBanim Smeicha as well as shulchan aruch shinchaftet
i am happy to see that Boruch Hashem the Agudah got together and discussed and resolved the many pressing issues affected frum jews in America.
I am happy to see that they have solutions for the Shidduch crisis, housing crisis, tuition crisis, and the kids at risk crisis.
Not.
This is why we still have the faith and confidence that the Agudah leadership understands the pressing issues that affect Klal Yisrael. (I am NOT referring to the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah who is more in touch with reality than the Agudah “leadership”).
I am confused why the Agudas Yisroel is involved in this matter!
If we are in Golus (and the last time I davened we still are asking for the Giula)then what are we trying to do.
Dont get me wrong, I daven at the Kosel but I realize that it is only a shemetz and zeicher of the Bayis. At this time I am unsure what Bailus or chiyuvim we have to keep it. Now if it saves one yiddeshe life I think every Gadol would say give it back now.
Chilul Shem Shomayim is doing Kineged Hatorah not what the umos think is good.
To say not to give back any part of Yerushalim without clarifying that it depends for what, seems wrong.
Im still confused!
What they should have done is quote the first RASHI on the Torah HaKedoshah [Breishis 1:1]:
The Ribono Shel Olam — who created and, therefore, owns the World — gave all of Eretz Yisrael to us, the descendants of Avraham, Yitchak, and Yaakov.
All other claims to the Holy Land are null and void.
did you ever hear of tisha b’av shiva asar btamuz tzom gdalia? hashem gave us eretz yisroel and HE kicked us out.
read ba’ayos hazman from maran rav reuven grozovsky zatzal for further elucidation
#12 I believe yishmael is a child of avraham & esav is a child of yitzchak- while most of us understand what you’re trying to say- do try and be more clear
there is no such thing as giving it BACK or returning it. To whom? Was there ever a Palestine?
yoy
One should do some research about the Kosel from the events of 1917 to August 1929. The results were an international tribunal. I’m sure Rav Elyashiv Shlit”a remembers these events well. Entire families including the Admor Rabbi Mordechai Twersky HY”D died as a result.
What the agudah is telling President Bush YR”H, is unfortunately worth less than the so called NK is worth in Iran.
where is trachtglat when we need him? why can’t he come up with some law that forbids giving land to terorists
While I enjoy a good sarcastic jab at the Agudah (or any other org. for that matter) as well as the next person, the issue at hand should be approached with a bit more seriousness. Whether one feels (#4) that our President couldn’t care less what the Agudah says, or whether one thinks that this is a waste of time, the fact is that any organization that purports to represent Am Yisrael has an obligation to make a statement. One would think it’s a “no brainer” for the Agudah to issue the statement that it did, yet the Noveminsker Rebbe didn’t want to issue a proclomation about Eretz Yisroel without instructions FROM Eretz Yisroel. THANX #8!
At the Agudah convention, both the Novomisker Rebbe, Rosh Agudas Yisroel, and Rabbi Wachsman, Keynote Speaker, made it clear that our sole concern is for the dangerous effect it will have on our Jewish brothers now living there, who will be threatened daily with Kassam rocket attacks, just as the Jews in Sderot and Ashkelon are threatened today, due to the ill-considered withdrawal from Gush Katif.
This has nothing to do with Jewish sovereignty or Zionism.
Why is this such a wonder for so many of you out there? the proclamation itself says ” … for reasons relating to considerations of security…” and then the wording tacks on other concerns as well.
Yet even had the proclamation not mentioned this overriding consideration the gedolim have maintained since after ’48, Would we have thought otherwise? Wouldn’t we automatically have realized that the gedolim’s first litmus test for any position is that the decision they make is the one they consider most prudent for SECURITY issues based on data that includes the positions of the military and intelligence establishment of the State of Israel?
And that only after that consideration is neutralized are there ” tackings on” of other concerns?
We all know that pikuach nefesh has been the foremost overarching consideration since the 48 war for the agudist gedolim and the non agudist badatz as well ( though they disagree on the factor of the existence of the state)
Finally, we all know that these types of proclamations signed by groups of gedolim ( as is the case -lihavdil- when groups of academics among the goyyim sign proclamations ) — thjat they are worded in certain ways for multiple reasons and arent a replica of how an individual gadol among the group would answer our specific questions as to why they made a pronouncement using the exact loshon that was used.
Keep the above blurb handy whenever you have this question again, and you’ll spare yourself many fits of anxiety.
President Bush: ” Mr.Abbas, i recieved a phone call from the aguda and due to their lack of interest of dividing Jerusalem, I’m afraid this conference has to be terminated.”
can we please be realistic, the only thing that will save us is our teffilos and our torah
Attention # 18, alias Lakewooder2:
What you say may be true. However, being fortunate to have Eretz Yisrael today as a gift from the Ribono Shel Olam, we have no right to hand it over to anyone else, especially not terrorists who are the worst Soneei Yisrael.
As my Rebbe, HaRav HaGaon Reb Aharon Soloveichik ZT”L used to say: The first RASHI in the Torah HaKedoshah requires that first and foremost we — ourselves — firmly believe that Eretz Yisrael is ours because the Ribono Shel Olam gave it to us. Unfortunately, the current Israeli “government” is controlled by Chilonim who do not believe in the Ribono Shel Olam and His Torah HaKedoshah.
deepthinker..
we all understand that all Jews must be and are concerned for the dangerous effect it will have on our brothers living there in Jerusalem.
What does our concern have to do with issuing a resolution?
How will this resolution alleviate our concern or lessen the danger?
I too am confused by the use of the word “American government”
I did not know there was government of the Americas.
Maybe they mean South America. Maybe they mean Central America. They mean North America, you say? Does Canada and Mexico have anything to do with this?
Oh, you think I am nitpicking or sarcastic and focusing on a trivial matter. Not so.
How are “Resolutions” presented to Government officials supposed to look or sound impressive, if the organization signing such document DOES NOT EVEN KNOW THE NAME OF THE COUNTRY!!!
It makes us look illiterate.
Also, do these people not realize that calling the US “America” is insulting to our neighboring countries. Certainly not a smoothly written document. Could they not have had an attorney draft this for them?
===========
But… as others said…. what the hay…. we are in golus. This is just intended to state a form of opposition.
Why is opposition necessary? Well, though I am stronly opposed to the very existence of the Zionist medina, and I do believe that we have no rights to govern during golus, there MAY BE an inyan here worth looking in to.
If the “Representatives” or the Zionist country are thought to be representatives of the Jewish People, then their gift of these parts of OUR heritage to Non-Jews can be thought of as the Jewish People giving it away PERMANENTLY. Though Hashem Yisborach gave it to us, we MAY be seen as giving it away.
Could this actually effect its status after Moshiach comes? ??
That is why they/we/us might could have a good reason to write a RESOLUTION that proclaims that the Jewish People are NOT giving this land away, and that it is only the government doing so. And, furthermore, that they do NOT represent the Jewish People as a whole.
Though I have no love lost for the Agudah, at least they are making this proclamation of some sort.
But, we ALL need to proclaim that:
1) WE THE JEWISH PEOPLE PROCLAIM THAT WE ARE THE RIGHTFULLY DEEDED OWNERS OF THE LAND IN QUESTION.
SAID DEED BEING CLEARLY SHOWN IN THE BIBLE.
2) THAT WE HAVE BEEN TEMPORARILY SENT OUT OF THIS LAND BY OUR CREATOR TO LIVE AMONG THE GENTILES, AND THAT THOUGH GOD ALLOWS TEMPORARY GENTILE CONTROL OF THIS LAND FROM TIME TO TIME, TITLE REMAINS WITH THE JEWISH PEOPLE.
3) WE THE JEWISH PEOPLE CLEARLY TESTIFY THAT THE LEADERSHIP OF THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT NOW CONTROLLING THIS LAND OF OUR HERITAGE DOES NOT REPRESENT THE JEWISH PEOPLE AS A WHOLE.
4) ANY DEAL, SOLUTION, COMPROMISE, OR ANY OTHER SUCH ARRANGEMENT AGREED TO BY THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE REPRESENTATIVES OF THE GOVERNMENT CURRENTLY IN CONTROL OF THE LAND OF THE JEWISH HERITAGE, BUT ARE NOT REPRESENTATIVES OF THE JEWISH PEPLE IS NOT BINDING ON THE JEWISH PEOPLE.
5) THEREFORE, ANY SUCH AGREEMENT, SIGNED BY MEN WHO MAY REPRESENT THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT OF THIS LAND OF THE JEWISH HERITAGE, BUT WHO DO NOT SO REPRESENT THE WORLD’S POPULATION OF JEWISH PEOPLE, WHETHER RATIFIED BY ANY GOVERNMENT ANYWHERE, DOES NOT TRANSFER PERMANENT TITLE TO ANYONE, AND THAT NO MATTER WHAT ANY MEN MAY AGREE TO, PERMANENT TENANCY WILL REVERT TO THE JEWISH PEOPLE AS A WHOLE UPON THE COMING OF OUR MESSIAH.
The above statement should be promulgated and signed by as many of us as possible, and so published. or else …. MAYBE … the goyim will have a cause of action to block our regaining control of OUR land when Moshiach arrives…. BimHaru Beyumeini.
After all, we we do not “divorce” ourselves, the Jewish People as a whole from the actions of those in power today, they may have a legal or maybe even halachic right to give away Eretz Yisroel permanently.
Now, Y’all please note the words “MAY” “Could” “Might” and other words above that make it clear that I paskin nothing. I am just being hypothetical. So, no need to flame me and/or argue halacha.
But what can my suggestion hurt?
If we remain silent, then “Shtika KiHoidua Damya” … our silence may be thought of as signatures on these agreements that we are all against.
Aguda resolution is good as far as it goes but it does not (yet) include the importance of Israel retaining Yehuda & Shomron, (“The West Bank”), the Biblical Heartland of Israel, and the Golan Heights is a security imperative.
We frum Jews need to keep contacting President Bush & our Senators and Representatives to urge them to oppose the creation of yet another Islamist state whose enemies are not only Israel but the US as well.
We also need to make our case in the media.
Why didn’t Rabbi Zwiebel address the agenda of the United States of America’s which is the formation of an independent Palestinian State to replace the cities in Judea and Samaria just like Gaza replaced Gush Katif? Doesn’t Rabbi Zwiebel realize that this means expelling 250,000 -300,000 fellow Jews part of our Guf and Neshama from Yesha, the heart of Eretz Yisroel? Why did he only express concern for Jerusalem which as Condi herself said was only for last stage negotiations. If we only protest the last stage that means we must agree with all the interim stages.
If we remain silent, then “Shtika KiHoidua Damya” … our silence may be thought of as signatures on these agreements that we are all against. (as quoted by the comment 30 ) Yasher Koach to Comment 30 and 31.