[VIDEO ADDED IN EXTENDED ARTICLE]
In an interview with Channel Two TV’s Oded Ami, Rabbi Aryeh Deri called for using force if need be against chareidim who take the law into their own hands.
Ami opened the interview acknowledging that the increasing trend of chareidi violence is a source of “discomfort for all”, including chareidim who are by-and-large law-abiding citizens, asking Deri to comment on the alarming situation.
Deri opened by saying “discomfort is not an adequate word, at least not for me, and permit me to explain, to use words that they will understand”. He went on to explain that we know that Yom Kippur and repentance can erase transgressions between man and Hashem, but the same formula does not work regarding transgressions between man and his fellow man. The damage caused to property and the injuries to people are a “chilul Hashem”, Deri exclaimed, and for these actions, Yom Kippur will not atone. “They should not say I am inciting, but Halacha teaches us that only death will atone for such actions, simple as that”.
“I am not giving a p’sak Halacha, but I can state my opinion, and it appears to me these people are to be categorized as a ‘rodef’ for their actions, which are simply a major chilul Hashem” Deri adds. “Look what they are doing to the name and image of chareidi Jews around the world. Just look, Hillary Clinton has already compared us to Iran!”
AMI:
Are these individuals uncontrollable?
DERI:
Let me explain Oded. First of all, this has nothing to do with discrimination against women. That little girl who was attacked, Na’ama, who received the empathy of the entire nation, which by the way she deserves, simply wishes to get to school, a girl school, a separate school. Her mother goes to shul and sits in a women’s section. While I do not know the father, one may assume he too is a frum person and goes to shul and sits in the men’s shul. Thousands of Anglo Saxons, chareidim among them, make a minyan on the train and women on their own accord do not enter the car to permit them to daven. This is not about Halacha, but it is those extremists who simply wish to dictate how we are to live our lives, this small but extremist faction of individuals.
They understand one language only, force. They are not controllable and no one can rein them in.
AMI:
There is no rav who can control them?
DERI:
I know one rabbi and one rabbi only, Rav Nitzav (Police Chief) Danino. I do not say this jokingly, but with all seriousness. This is the reality. How can they smash a vehicle because of flag they saw inside? Who gives them the right to act this way, to burn buses and carts? The police must act. The residents of Meah Shearim are suffering – we are all suffering.
We are now celebrating the holiday in which the heathens tried to control us. This is the holiday that we all boast, religious and non-religious alike because of the victory. What is going on here with these extremists? They must be stopped.
AMI:
A segment from a news special aired on Friday night was shown in which chareidim from Ramat Beit Shemesh explained they will impose their way on others, a derech they view as the Torah way of life, even if it means spitting at a 7-year-old girl.
DERI:
This man needs a psychiatrist urgently. This is no laughing matter. This is not Torah. I was educated in the Hevron Yeshiva. Did you hear of Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, who was accepted by all, across the board? Do you know 300,000 people attended his funeral. He was loved and respected by all. He lived in Shaare Zedek and traveled to his yeshiva in Bayit Vegan by bus. He did not have drivers. He was modest and traveled on buses. Only in his later years people fought to give him a ride. He never wanted it. He questioned the need, telling others there are buses. There is a well known story that on one of his travels, a woman dressed immodestly sat alongside the rav. Not only didn’t he get up, but he went a stop passed his stop to make sure she didn’t think he was getting up because of her – not wishing to offend her. Can you understand this? Do you know the caliber of this man, who he was?
This is what I was taught and how we were raised. If it bothers you, get up and move. How dare anyone try to assault a woman because she bothers him. Baruch Hashem I have eight girls and they travel on the bus and sit alone by choice. We all have an option. If you are truly bothered get off the bus. One cannot impose one’s will on others on a public bus.
Please chevra, don’t tear that fine line that still connects us all in Israel. Please, you are coming dangerously close to doing irreparable damage. END
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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12 Responses
Does he mean the government should use force (as the do against the Arabs and the Settlers)? Governments usually are pretty good at using force against those who threaten them.
Does he mean the frum community should gets its act together and use force? That would actually be a very traditional way of dealing with internal (i.e. frum attacking frum) problems. It requires a wide range of Haredi rabbanim to get together. Of course, the Israeli government would be horrified as this would threaten their rule in a way that has heretofore been inconceivable.
Akuperma, how predictable and ridiculous! Only one line of reasoning: it’s all zionists’ fault.
Kol Hakavod, Reb Aryeh. But this isn’t suffice. The Charedi world in Israel and abroad must speak up and make it clear that we do not associate ourselves with this behavior. In fact we must publicly condemn such behavior and intolerance. Perhaps someone can campaign to get tens of thousands of signatures from the Charedi world to show our true position. With the proper attitude the charedi world can bring millions of Yidden closer to the path of Torah & Mitzvos. I would like to see gedolei Yisroel speak out against these minorities so the world should know that this is unacceptable to the mainstream Torah Jewry.
Akuperma, did you notice that the nutcases are supposedly those who are anti-zionist and supposedly holier than those “evil zionists”?
No , he is saying that maybe they should use justifiable force against anti-zionist nutcases who think they are holier than the Torah itself!
#1, learn Hilchot Melachim of Rambam and see what powers he gives to the government in order to maintain order.
Deri is barking up the wrong tree. These matters should be resolved with quiet negotiation, not bluster nor extreme anti-frum rhetoric nor further damage to achdut.
I think the use of force against other Jews in this situation to be not only unwise but a sin.
And I’m secular.
#1 & #6 – The spitting, name calling and intimidation has been going on for a least 6 years in Beit Shemesh. The charidim claim that they don’t agree with the zealots but the Charadi rabbinom, Charadi communities leaders, and Charadi MKs are quiet. They need to stop worrying about looking like they are anti-charadi and speak out against the zealots.
I for one am totally frustrated at the lack of response from the Charadi leadership and have unfortunately lost any respect that I may have had for them and don’t value any Torah that comes out their mouths.
Dear #6, Ari Deri ain’t no dog. He doesn’t bark at anyone or anything. Re. the issue at hand, there are communities within the charedi sector that sometimes do resort to physical force to implement halacha with rabbinical endorsement. I am referring to a recalcitrant husband that refuses to give a gett (bill of divorce) to his wife, or demands a large payment in order to give his wife a gett. The justification for use of physical force in this instance is that ruach shtus (foolishness) got into the person and he needs help to clear his mind. Do you doubt for a moment that these “zealots” that attack women and children were not overwhelmed by ruach shtus and need our help to get the rid of it?
#8. Don’t be naive. Israeli hilonim want to use these incidents to bash the frum community. It’s a type of anti-Semitism.
You yourself over-state the matter. “Attack women and children (plural)” would seem to be an exaggeration. There was one child harassed.
To handle these small incidents in a limited area, negotiations and pressure from community leaders should be sufficient.
Police and marches of thousands is over-doing it. Just like anti-Semites, the secular left is using minor incidents to foment hatred of religious Jews and advance the secular-left agenda.
My cleaning lady used to work for the wife of one of these crazy guys. She wasn’t paid one week, and the wife told her that her husband was going to chutz Laaretz to raise funds. When he came back she was paid. The only way to stop this mess is to stop funding it. These men DO.NOT.WORK. They use your tzedaka money to enable these kinds of chillul Hashem. So if you really care about stopping the chillul Hashem, please investigate what your tzedaka money is being used for. There are very worthy causes in Eretz Yisroel that deserve your support.
emunah613, you are 1,000,000% right.
#9, there are serious issues with a small group clad in Charedi levush that cause lots of trouble to those who do not subscribe to their ways. They demand and collect protection money in Geula, Mea Shearim, Ramat Beit Shemesh from charedi businesses just to be let alone and do business. They have attacked men, women, and children for long. Police chose to look the other way, regarding it an internal Charedi issue. If the police doesn’t step in, there may be no alternative to what Ari Deri is suggesting.
BTW, NotFrum, how about becoming frum? There is a loving Father waiting for you to take the right step.